Help me fix my starter

[wrenchturner]

When you inspected the flywheel did you turn the flywheel and check all the way around or just where the starter was at? Too me it sounds like the flywheel teeth are worn. Each time an engine stops it will always stop on the compression stroke thus the starter drive pinion engages the flywheel ring gear at the same places each time. For a 4 cylinder engine this is 2 places, for a 3 cyl, 3 places and for a two cylinder, the same place everytime.

If the ring gear is worn and the engine is not externally ballanced by the flywheel, you can simply reindex the flywheel on the crankshaft.

 

[diyDave]

That tapping on your starter you hear is the sound of your permanent magnets breaking into little bits. Don't hit on the side of the starter tube, tap the front casting near the solenoid, lightly with the smallest ball peen hammer ever made, and only in the case of the direst emergency. I have a friend who rebuilds all of mine, and every time I'm over there, there's one more with busted magnets. That remedy is fine for the older, non magnetic starters, but to do it to something with magnets is asking for trouble! Best thing to do is to start at the battery, clean both terminals, inspect cables for corrosion/broken insulation or green copper in the wire. Then test the battery with a load tester to see if it is still good, then check the ground wire, to be sure it has good contact with the frame/engine, then check terminal at the solenoid for corrosion/tightness, then check voltage at the solenoid loaded and unloaded. If the voltage drops as you are cranking, recheck all connections and battery voltage. If necessary, take the starter apart, and look and smell the solenoid for evidence of burning or sticking. In 20 or so years of messing with these starters, other than abuse, low battery voltage causing solenoid failure is the most common problem I have seen!

 

[dieselfuelonly]

When you inspected the flywheel did you turn the flywheel and check all the way around or just where the starter was at? Too me it sounds like the flywheel teeth are worn. Each time an engine stops it will always stop on the compression stroke thus the starter drive pinion engages the flywheel ring gear at the same places each time. For a 4 cylinder engine this is 2 places, for a 3 cyl, 3 places and for a two cylinder, the same place everytime.

If the ring gear is worn and the engine is not externally ballanced by the flywheel, you can simply reindex the flywheel on the crankshaft.

Whey you say "re-index" the flywheel, do you mean that I would have to separate the tractor, and turn the flywheel so that teeth that have never been "started against" would be where the starter is?

I think the flywheel is fine however, I think the solenoid is probably causing the problem.

 

[wrenchturner]

In your original post you said the starter was making a "grinding" sound. I assume you know the difference between this sound and the sound of a starter chattering due to low voltage due to low battery, poor connections in wiring etc. I know it is sometimes difficult to describe sounds and unfortunately I cannot hear written words as sounds. Anytime, anytime you have a starter off, a transmission out etc. visually inspect all of the flywheel teeth. Rotate the engine and inspect the teeth all the way around.

As far as reindexing the flywheel, I had never thought about this until about 25 years ago I worked with a German mechanic. The teeth were bad on a Peugot 4 cylinder engine. He simply removed the flywheel and turned it 90 degrees.

 

[dieselfuelonly]

Yeah I'm sure its not because of low voltage, its a definate grinding sound due to the starter gear not meshing completely with the flywheel.

 

[dsgsr]

Dennis, Would you please let us know what the problem ends up being. That will be good info. for others having the same problem.

David

 

[dieselfuelonly]

Hey, just came to do that right now .

Today it started acting up again. After 5 tries I got a little ticked off and went ahead and took the starter off. Started by removing the battery cables. Sadly I randomly decided to take positive off first. Man some sparks went flyin' when my pliers touched the radiator support .

Decided to go ahead and take negative off before I finished positive. That worked much better .

Anyway, I got the starter off.

I gave ita good shaking and got a little grease on my finger and put it on the shaft that the gear slides up and down on. I had it smooth enough so that by tipping the starter up/down the gear would slide up and down the shaft.

Put it back on the tractor and it started right up first time.

After that I just went for a quick drive around the yard and then parked it.

So maybe I fixed the problem, or maybe having the starter off and banging it around a little bit just temporarily made it start that time. I will give the complete update in the next few days (I use my tractor every day, start it up and shut it down probably 2-3x / day on average) and well lets just hope that a little grease was all it needed!

 

[gemini5362]

Ok I am going to disagree with the majority of posters on here ( isnt that a surpise)

Getting a starter repaired is a minor inconvenience and maybe some money. Getting a flywheel replaced is a major inconvenience and if you have it done a lot of money. Get the starter fixed soon bendix issues on the starter become flywheel issues pretty quickly. Currently my job title is industrial electronic technician. I am very aware of how to take starters apart and fix them. I have not done it since I had to repair the starter on my 8N years ago i bought new brushes for it and while I had it apart found the spring holder was broken. I went to the local starter rebuilder and asked him if he could get get the new part. He offered to just go ahead and fix the starter. He replaced the whole brush assembly with new brushes for less money than I originally paid for the brushes. If you have someone there that has a good reputation for working on starters take the starter to him and have him check it out and see if there is something wrong with it. My rebuilder gives me a max price it might be if he replaces everything but the case and then charges me for the parts he has to replace plus the labor to replace them.

 

[SnowRidge]

Hey, just came to do that right now .

Today it started acting up again. After 5 tries I got a little ticked off and went ahead and took the starter off. Started by removing the battery cables. Sadly I randomly decided to take positive off first. Man some sparks went flyin' when my pliers touched the radiator support .

Decided to go ahead and take negative off before I finished positive. That worked much better .

Anyway, I got the starter off.

I gave ita good shaking and got a little grease on my finger and put it on the shaft that the gear slides up and down on. I had it smooth enough so that by tipping the starter up/down the gear would slide up and down the shaft.

Put it back on the tractor and it started right up first time.

After that I just went for a quick drive around the yard and then parked it.

So maybe I fixed the problem, or maybe having the starter off and banging it around a little bit just temporarily made it start that time. I will give the complete update in the next few days (I use my tractor every day, start it up and shut it down probably 2-3x / day on average) and well lets just hope that a little grease was all it needed!

Sounds like it may have been a simple lubrication issue and you've gotten it licked. Plus you got a bonus. Now you know why you should always remove the negative battery lead first.

 

[mrutkaus]

Depending on where or if the drips go, you might try squirting a lot of brake cleaner all around in there (not in the motor) with a wand, letting it dry or blowing it out with compressed air, then squirting in some spray grease or what is sold as "chain lube".

It might work, I'm only saying this method because you are hesitant about taking it apart and cleaning it.

Good luck,

Mike