Help me get my "homestead" started - Chickens, Ducks, and Bees

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Morning all,

I feel like it's time to go ahead and get started preparing for the spring around here. My family just moved onto about 11 acres over last summer. Moved a house trailer out to live in while waiting to build a house. I'm planning on scaling up my "Freedom Garden" that I had been growing in the neighborhood we moved out of. It was about 24' X 36' with tomatoes, zucchini, squash, bell peppers, jalapeno peppers, okra, cucumbers, green beans, and maybe a couple other odds and ends here and there. I am decent with that, although I will have to start the soil from scratch here.... yay... I am going to add a bunch of corn, watermelon and hopefully strawberries, but I don't know anything about strawberries yet.

On to the critters. I want to raise a few chickens for eggs, and maybe to eat? I don't even know if you eat the egg laying chickens? Or if I could, you know pets.. I also want to have some pet ducks for the little pond. In the spring time TSC has the little baby chickens and ducks. I was hoping to start with about a 6 pack of each. I don't know what to build for them to mature in or live in once grown. I assume I need something small to start them in like a little dog house size with a heat lamp? I don't have any outbuildings that I would be able to put it in, so it would have to be stand alone. Or I guess I could go ahead and build a chicken coop to put the little box in but it would probably be too far away from power...

Bees are next. I don't even know why I want bees? I just think it would be fun to watch them and I think they would be good for the garden. I think that just takes buying a hive kit and some tools. I have a friend that raises them so I *think* I should be able to get enough information to get started good with them.

 

[sea2summit]

Do you have a fence around the pond or are you just getting the ducks to feed the yotes? Half joking, domestic ducks aren't very bright and make great predator food.

I would build infrastructure first, coop or tractor, then worry about getting critters. Nothing wrong with TSC birds but talk to the locals or ask on the local FB group and I bet you can find some that are going to be a little healthier at the start. I'm no PETA guy and I've bought I don't know how many birds from hatcheries but the way young fowl are treated from hatchery to mail to the store is pretty disturbing.

Bees are a big time suck until they are well established, I'd recommend finding the local bee club and attending the meetings. Also the best place to get nucs, although you're getting toward the end of "season" for reserving a nuc this year.

Just me but if I was in your shoes I'd get a steer to feed out, 4-6 month old pretty cheap. Easy to maintain and will provide you with 20-40lbs of the fertilizer you need every day...granted you gotta put that much feed in him.

You must decide now if the are pets or food though, and make sure the family is on board with the decisions.

 

[Doughknob]

We start chicks in a cat kennel with heat lamp in the basement for a month, then out to the coop. U can eat any chicken but the older the tougher. Laying starts around 5-6 months. meat chickens typically eaten at a couple months old.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

Do you have a fence around the pond or are you just getting the ducks to feed the yotes? Half joking, domestic ducks aren't very bright and make great predator food.

I would build infrastructure first, coop or tractor, then worry about getting critters. Nothing wrong with TSC birds but talk to the locals or ask on the local FB group and I bet you can find some that are going to be a little healthier at the start. I'm no PETA guy and I've bought I don't know how many birds from hatcheries but the way young fowl are treated from hatchery to mail to the store is pretty disturbing.

Bees are a big time suck until they are well established, I'd recommend finding the local bee club and attending the meetings. Also the best place to get nucs, although you're getting toward the end of "season" for reserving a nuc this year.

Just me but if I was in your shoes I'd get a steer to feed out, 4-6 month old pretty cheap. Easy to maintain and will provide you with 20-40lbs of the fertilizer you need every day...granted you gotta put that much feed in him.

You must decide now if the are pets or food though, and make sure the family is on board with the decisions.

No fence to keep the yotes out. I was thinking of floating a house on the pond for them?

Yes the reason for this post is to start the infrastructure first. So I can hopefully get it done before spring.

I really got to get on top of the bee thing...

Not really in the cards for a beef yet. My wife is vehemently opposed to eating a pet that she names... And I am not established enough yet on the property to be comfortable shuffling large animals until I have a plan for house build and cross fencing etc.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've bought my land in 2003 and moved onto it in 2005. I did everything wrong, but hopefully I'm learning by my mistakes. If I was to do it again, I would get the place fenced a lot sooner. Predators never stop!!!

We free range our chickens. My wife likes different colored eggs, so we have a variety of breeds. They need to have a fence around them to keep out coyotes. Hawks rarely cause any damage, but coyotes will grab one and run off with it 24/7

Egg layers are not good for eating. Two completely different types of birds. Layers need to be kept in a coop and not allowed to free range. They are harvested at around 2 months old. But I'm not sure on that. We've considered it, but have not done it yet. I'm not sure if we will or not, it's a lot of work cleaning the birds. You buy them at the same time, so you have to butcher them all at the same time. If you wait too long to butcher them, they mature and the meat isn't as good to eat.

This is why you don't eat laying hens and roosters. By the time they are old enough to lay eggs, they are too old to eat. By the time the roosters are mature and turn into the devil, there isn't any meat on them. Roosters are pure evil and in their obsession with mating, they run themselves into super tough, lean, stringy meat that isn't edible. We crock pot their breasts for the dogs and they don't care for it either.

Fencing, shelter and water that doesn't freeze in winter need to be done right away.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

So is there any reason to keep roosters around if you aren't planning on breeding?

 

[newbury]

If you are going to keep bees now is the time to get two hives and the needed materials (frames etc.) and order the bees. for spring delivery. The bees often sell out and are difficult to get, unless your friend can set you up with a colony or two.

 

[EddieWalker]

No. We hatch about 100 chicks a year and half of them are roosters. Of those 50, we usually get one or 2 that do not become the devil. Usually it's a dozen at a time that I kill to almost the girls down. Rarely do I kill them before they turn. We want to find a calm breder, and that is very difficult to do.

So is there any reason to keep roosters around if you aren't planning on breeding?

 

[NorTracNY]

I'd suggest that you prepare for bees for 2023. Find a local group, take classes (around here they are occurring now), and buy some equipment to build. Maybe visit a mentors apiary this summer.

For chickens, the only advice that I'd add is to factor in the total number you're going to want into what to build. Keep in mind that if you bought all the chickens you wanted that in 3 years you would only be getting a fraction of the eggs you'd be getting when they are 30weeks old. Depending on how you protect them and the predators it can be tough. Plan to get a handful every year and if you have larger losses one year, then you just get a few more.

 

[oosik]

When we moved onto the property - there was nothing but a very old log cabin to "live" in. It kept the rain off our heads but not much else. Night time activities - keep the mice and chipmunks out of our sleeping bags. It was a GREAT incentive to put max effort on getting the house completed. We arrived in May - moved into the new house in October.

That first year we had no spare time. 100% of our efforts were on the new house.

Second year - big garden - plant fruit trees - manicure the new mile long gravel driveway.

From experience I would suggest you check with your neighbors regarding livestock, water fowl, chickens, gardens and the like. They can be a windfall of valuable information. They can advise on what must be done to make things work.

Example - I knew from the get-go that chickens & rabbits would require an enclosure like Ft Knox. I have an abundance of wildlife that would enjoy my new barnyard crowd. Owls, hawks, coyotes, skunks, raccoons, badgers, weasels, cougars and even Black bears.

I learned that pocket gophers would be the downfall of our garden and raise havoc with any planted trees. We found an answer for both. Root cages for the planted trees - buy fresh vegetables at the local farmers market.

Good luck. You and your family are beginning an adventure that will never be forgotten.

 

[nyone]

For chickens do a real cost analysis on eggs vs feed cost vs buying local eggs. I found it's far cheaper in time and money to just buy eggs. This dosnt include any loss that will eventually happen. Everything eats chickens.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

For chickens do a real cost analysis on eggs vs feed cost vs buying local eggs. I found it's far cheaper in time and money to just buy eggs. This dosnt include any loss that will eventually happen. Everything eats chickens.

It's not really about the cost. I know it's easier just buying eggs. It's more of a hobby to play with. I like messing around outside.

 

[kcflhrc]

Chickens are great and for me are fantastic pets. The most we ever had were 13 and now down to 5. They have a great coop and run. I only let them out when I'm home and can watch them. All Hen's, never any roosters that we kept. One of the girls is my buddy. She will hop up and sit in my lap and want to be petted. It will be a sad day when she's gone. Plus they eat all kinds of bugs and ticks, great to have around. I have never lost a bird to a predator. They just die off for unknown reasons. The oldest birds are going on 7. The eggs are so much better than any store bought egg you can find. Is it cost effective, heck no, just fun to have them around.

 

[shooterdon]

Get the house up first. Forget the garden, livestock and bees. It will take you all spring and summer to have a home by the winter, and to be prepared for winter. If using wood for heat, you need to start cutting it ASAP so it has a chance to season a bit.

What you think will be fun can turn into work.

 

[EddieWalker]

For chickens do a real cost analysis on eggs vs feed cost vs buying local eggs. I found it's far cheaper in time and money to just buy eggs. This dosnt include any loss that will eventually happen. Everything eats chickens.

There is a lot of truth in this. We sell eggs for $4 a dozen. On average, we sell about ten dozen eggs a week. We go through 3 sacks of feed per week at $10 a sack. This also includes feeding a dozen ducks, 5 swan geese, half a dozen guineas and quite a few older chickens that no longer lay eggs, and some roosters. That remaining $10 is eaten up with the fuel and time getting feed, electricity to the barn to keep the LED lights on all night, and the cost of egg cartons.

The cost of the coop is never recovered. I'm easily in the hole thousands of dollars. It makes zero financial sense to raise chickens to sell eggs.

But it makes a lot of sense to have them if you eat eggs, and you use them for your home made dog food, which we do. Our 6 dogs eat 2 eggs a day, at least. Some are hard boiled because they like that better, others get them raw, over their food, because they like that better.

During the shutdown, we sold more eggs then ever before, but we also traded eggs for all sorts of things. A dozen eggs was better then cash!!! Friends would drive out to our place and bring meat, cleaning products, cheese, veggies, and even beer for eggs. For us, that proved that having chickens was more then worth what we spent on everything so far.

Now I'm spending a small fortune building up our goat operation with an obscene amount of money on fencing, then a small barn, and then making the small barn into a large barn. It's a never ending money pit, but it also creates stability for us, and our dogs.

We have 24 raised vegetable beds and enough room to triple that. We plan to run water from the pond to water the gardens. We are also going to build a green house as big as possible. Huge is the goal!!

I don't see any way that we will ever make enough money on any of this to break even, but once it's built, and the money is spent, we do expect to be able to raise enough food to significantly reduce what we spend at the store.

It's not about the money, it's about creating a home where we are less dependent on the supply chain.

 

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

I found a local beekeeping farm that provides classes and has equipment and bees available. So bees are a go for spring 2022!!

Ducks just showed up at Tractor Supply. I'm going to get a place set up to raise little ones this week and try to get several little ducks by the end of the week. May hold off on chickens for a bit.

 

[GE7EA]

I applaud your efforts Lil Big John. What you are embarking on is a journey. Nothing worth having is done overnight. My advice on bees, is learn all you can. We have bees and lost at least one hive this year to freezing. Never have lost bees due to varroa mites or hive beetles. They do pretty well on their own, once established. We opt to not treat our bees because they've been designed to be able to adapt to what ails them if given a chance. Contrary to popular belief, man can't fix everything. We have chickens and turkeys as well. We've tried to get dual purpose chicken breeds but primarily we use them for eggs. The turkeys we have were on the critical list, so we got them to help sustain the heritage breeds. Narragansett turkeys and Red Rock Farmstead turkeys. Best tasting bird I've ever eaten. Hoping to breed them this year. We use movable self made turkey tractors and have recently purchased electric poultry fence from premier1. We'll move them once a week instead of daily once that gets going. I'm considering doing cornish croix chickens this year for self consumption. Strictly a meat bird. We've had a few in the past and despite giving them the best like possible, breeding has made their lives pretty unfulfilling. To the point of cost of doing vs. cost of going to grocery, consider what you're contributing to. Knowledge you will attain, etc. Anyone can go to the grocery store. We lost a lot of what used to be fundamental knowledge and replaced it with directions to the grocery store. Polyface Farms has a lot of resources and information available concerning regenerative farming. Basically utilizing pasture rotation while building soil and keeping animals happy. There is joy in the journey.

 

[SandburRanch]

When we had laying hens they were always free ranged because of the egg quality that purchased feed can't match . If i were to do it again i would have a moat pen around the garden for the chickens to aid with insect control . A good dog of the correct breeding and raised from a pup on your property is invaluable for predator protection . Something i learned later in life is confined laying hens turned out 1 to 2 hours before roost time to free range don't need to be driven back to the hen house because they will go back naturally if they were confined in that building when they were babies . Leave the door open and just go close it after dusk /dark . Oh there may be 1 renegade that wants to revert back to the wild and roost in a tree but that's ok because she probably isn't a good layer anyway .

Winter feed:
Winter Wheat pasture is good or if confined good leaf-ey Alfalfa hay ( yes that's right , Quality HAY , whole oats ( watch the weight when you buy ) , and Oyster shells . As always , table scraps being they are Omnivores especially clabered milk or just any extra milk if you milk a cow . With this feed program you'll see orange yokes and whites that don't run all over the skillet .

The best book i ever read to care for farm animals is -- Feeds and Feeding by Morrison . It's a compilation of information from Ag universities .

Raise Broiler chicks to butcher and Leghorns or Rhode Island Reds for eggs or a cross of those 2 .

Before entering the hen /chicken house knock on the door , especially with the flighty / nervous Leghorns .

 

[ericm979]

We have a lot of predators in our area. The four legged kind I mean. Free ranging the chickens isn't possible. We had to fence in the pen and then fence over the top of the pen to keep the bobcats out. The coop has automatic doors that close at night. The chickens learn to go inside.

We're not dog people but even if we were the dog can't patrol 24/7 like the predators do. It's got to sleep. Inside. We have predators that will eat dogs.

Yes you can shoot predators (if it's legal and safe to do so, downrange etc.) but more will show up and you can't be out there 24/7 either.

Ask around what your neighbors are doing. Local intel will be worth more than generic info from the internet.

The chickens are good at recycling kitchen scraps and garden surpluses and some weeds. They eat a lot of stuff but not everything.

Home grown eggs are way different from regular supermarket eggs. They have a flavor, and since they're fresh and weren't stored for a month, the yolks stand up.

 

[Oaktree]

I found a local beekeeping farm that provides classes and has equipment and bees available. So bees are a go for spring 2022!!

I wouldn't rush into it, bees can be a lot of work. My sister keeps them and she generally loses a hive each winter. Granted, Arkansas isn't NEK Vermont, but you got good advice upthread to get to know other beekeepers in your area first.

Ericm979 had a lot of good advice too.

One thing you haven't mentioned yet is how you plan to support yourself while getting established. A day job is best, but it'll take away a lot of time from building your home and getting settled. Even once you're well established, you'll find it's a tough lifestyle.