Help, rough running engine in cold temps

[SI2305]

Coyote machine,

Trust me, that amount of rust concerns me too. For the moment I am keeping the old filter--just to see what I can learn from it. I might have to get a new filter bowl as the old one was severely stained. While I was changing the filter I took the bowl in, took an old toothbrush and a little WD-40 (actually it was rust loosener, but the point is the same) and I scrubbed the inside as much as I could. Quite a bit cleared up, but there was some staining that I just could not clean. I will be keeping a much closer eye on it from now on. I've learned my lesson and I just hope that I have not passed any damage further downstream from the filter.

My hopes are high on that regard as I think that the filter was doing exactly what it was supposed to do. Further, I suppose that some injection cleaner now and then might not be a bad idea given the severity of the contamination on the filter itself. Your thoughts on injector cleaner? I'd appreciate them, you have been pretty much right on so far.

Thanks to all,

SI2305

 

[SI2305]

Just got off the machine after plowing my driveway and the neighbors. While mine was not much of a challenge because I had already gotten the job done earlier, the neighbor's was a good stress test. They have approx 800' of steep driveway. I plow theirs just to be neighborly & actually felt bad that I could not do it earlier. This time though, the little 2305 charged right through it. Now it roars like a lion and purrs like a kitten.

Thanks everyone

SI2305

 

[sparc]

To the OP: don't worry about the air filter cause and effect here, just change it because it needs to be done. Your engine isn't dirty, but it is dusty. Put on some latex gloves, grab hold of the fuel filter knurled locking ring and unscrew the housing. Catch the excess fuel, clean out the housing and replace the filter and reassemble it all.

It wouldn't hurt to clean the exterior of the fuel filter BEFORE opening it up so that you lessen the chance of getting debris in there during the filter change.

 

[Coyote machine]

Coyote machine,

Trust me, that amount of rust concerns me too. For the moment I am keeping the old filter--just to see what I can learn from it. I might have to get a new filter bowl as the old one was severely stained. While I was changing the filter I took the bowl in, took an old toothbrush and a little WD-40 (actually it was rust loosener, but the point is the same) and I scrubbed the inside as much as I could. Quite a bit cleared up, but there was some staining that I just could not clean. I will be keeping a much closer eye on it from now on. I've learned my lesson and I just hope that I have not passed any damage further downstream from the filter.

My hopes are high on that regard as I think that the filter was doing exactly what it was supposed to do. Further, I suppose that some injection cleaner now and then might not be a bad idea given the severity of the contamination on the filter itself. Your thoughts on injector cleaner? I'd appreciate them, you have been pretty much right on so far.

Thanks to all,

SI2305

I think you've caught the problem before it had a chance to do any damage downstream, but time will tell if that is the case or not. As far as replacing the fuel bowl, I take it it's something like polycarbonate or another plastic, not glass? Either way, I wouldn't worry too much about removing all of the 'rust'? stain since it's probably etched into the plastic forever, unless it seriously hampers your ability to see what is going on inside the bowl as far as water or particulate contamination. If it does then replace it.
I would be more inclined to drain your tank and then add some fresh diesel while the drain is open to possibly wash out any water or rust on teh bottom of the tank. Using diesel injector cleaner and or Redline diesel fuel catalyst in particualer is what I would do. Redline was approved a long time ago when I had my foreign auto repair facility, for Mercedes Benz diesels, and we used it all the time due to people coming up to VT to ski from southern climates and their Benzes, Volvos, VW's filters freezing solid overnight while parked at condos on the mountains with no block heaters and water in their tanks and fuel filters. We'd flatbed them to the shop, put them on the lifts, drain and change the oil and all other filters add Redline and send them on their way, with a big welcome to VT bill!:thumbsup:
Redline makes present water molecules into microscopic particles which can then be burned along with the diesel fuel, and prevents freezing of the filters and fuel tank contained water, up to a point. Too much water/condensation needs to be drained from the fuel tank & or supply source.

 

[DeereMann]

+1

Glad you got it solved. My concern is about what looked like rust on the caps of the filter, which could have gone past the filter into your injection pump and injectors. If it were my tractor I'd keep a very close eye on the new filter and the sight glass and if any further signs of water appear I'd drain my tractor fuel tank and again change the fuel filter. Treating your incoming fuel supply is one thing, existing possible contamination of your on tractor fuel tank is another. Consider yourself very lucky if you don't have any further damage down the line from the fuel filter as a result of that filter's condition.

The fuel injection system is the most expensive part of any stock diesel engine, and should be subject to the utmost in maintenance & care.

 

[SI2305]

Coyote machine

How do I go about draining a tank? Just use it till it is nearly empty? Drain everything? Should I use the filter apparatus to empty fuel into a container? I will get the redline, but when should I add it, before or after tank inspection?

SI2305

 

[Henri88]

SI2305

This is the worst fuel filter I've ever seen, and I've seen quite a few. Must of been a good feeling when you saw that filter knowing pretty much you had find your problem. :cool2: Good for you! I think you will be ok. As most people suggested, just keep a close eye on it. It will tell you if you have to flush your fuel tank or not. :thumbsup:

Henri

 

[Henri88]

I'm not convinced that live diesel bugs necessarily require light, but I'm pretty convinced most strains need water to get rolling. Need a relevant micro-biologist in here to get a definitive answer.....

Back to the water - in Henri's picture I can see what looks like a red float ring at the bottom of the fuel sight bowl, that should indicate water level. What I don't see in any of these pictures is the water drain valve - could be the angle - is there a drain valve on the bottom of these bowls
Or is the drain valve somewhere else on these JDs ?

I might be repeating myself (been in a few of these type of threads lately), but it's worth it..... given the likelyhood of contamination, I'd be dosing the tank with a shot of biocide when doing the filter change/service.

Rgds, D.

Rgds, D.

There is no drain valve on the fuel bowl. Not a major problem as you can see when water is accumulating in the bowl with the red ring, but it sure would be handy to have a drain valve.

 

[3930dave]

Rgds, D.

There is no drain valve on the fuel bowl. Not a major problem as you can see when water is accumulating in the bowl with the red ring, but it sure would be handy to have a drain valve.

Thanks Henri. I don't know these newer small tractors that well, I thought I was missing something in the pictures.

The older stuff that I'm familiar with all have drain valves. I guess it is common today, I think I remember one of the guys on here adding an aftermarket filter to his small Kubota.

Awareness is all that really matters.... if the Red ring floats off the bottom much, dump the bowl ! :thumbsup:

Rgds, D.

 

[Coyote machine]

Coyote machine

How do I go about draining a tank? Just use it till it is nearly empty? Drain everything? Should I use the filter apparatus to empty fuel into a container? I will get the redline, but when should I add it, before or after tank inspection?

SI2305

If it were my tractor, I would not run the tank down low, or wait to drain it and start with a clean tank. You already dodged a bullet with the fuel filter, so don't push your luck.
See if there's a drain on the tank and if not you may be able to remove the fuel line from the bottom of the tank and drain the fuel that way. You could disconnect the fuel line at the filter and gravity drain the tank and then add fresh fuel to flush out any sediment/water/rust from the bottom of the tank. If you can remove the tank, even better, but not necessary if you are able to get most everything out. If neither option works you can buy a siphon and suck the tank dry while in place, then flush out the rest of the remaining fuel/debris/water by disconnecting the fuel line from the inlet to the fuel filter housing and letting whatever is left in the tank into a bucket, and then adding some fresh fuel to flush out any remaining contaminants. Compressed air could be used when the tank is almost dry to help push out any remaining liquids by putting an air nozzle into the fill opening on the tank and using low pressure and a rag stuffed in the opening to seal the tank and make the air force the fuel out the fuel line.
You can put a dose of the Redline in ASAP, and then again when the tank is cleaned out as a preventative measure. You will still have to keep a close eye on the filter bowl going forward and change the filter at lest once a year, around fall/winter to minimize the potential for further freezing/rusting of same.
It sounds more involved than it is to drain the tank, but I can assure you you will have done a lot to save yourself and the injection system from further headaches down the road. Wear gloves and eyewear when dealing with the diesel and capture whatever comes from the tank in a clean bucket so you will have a better idea of what was in it. If there is a lot of water or rust present you may have to find a different fuel supplier and may also have to add a lubricity agent to your fuel supply to keep the injection pump from seizing due to lack of lubrication from ULSD.

 

[SI2305]

Henri88, Coyote Machine, others

Trust me, I have learned my lesson here. I am keeping the filter for now to see what I can learn of it. I would like to get a look inside to see what the filter missed. Based on a very cursory examination, there is a little darkening inside the filter an some very superficial rust on the internal mesh. Given the amount of contamination on the outside I see no way that the inside would not darken as well. I don't know what to make of the superficial rust inside. Hopefully it means nothing. I suppose some rust could have made its way to combustion chamber. Were it to make it that far, I would think that it would be burnt and ejected. I had absolutely no trouble running the engine yesterday at both low RPM's and high, high load or no load. With a bit of luck this means the engine is fine and the filter did its job. Feel free to correct me if I am being over optimistic or recommend any other treatment other than regular maintenance. Thanks for all the input.

SI2305

 

[3930dave]

One of the collateral issues with ULSD is it seems to have more of an affinity for water. As diesel fuel systems have evolved (higher pressure fuel rails, smaller geometry injector orifices), water has become an even bigger problem.

There are various strategies out there, in terms of diesel fuel additives. The one I know the best, and use consistently is Stanadyne. Their approach is to coagulate (correct term is de-emulsify) the teeny tiny water molecules into larger clumps, so the stock filter can do it's job better. What you accomplish is near perfect filtration (as in separation) of the water.

If not much for evangelizing about "You must use Brand X vs. Y" in terms of additives, except to say that I'd stay away from anything that contains alcohol. (And, to be clear, I've only heard good things about Redline in general - I don't know enough about how their additive actually functions to comment further).

Mostly what I'm getting at is:

1) Do the research and select a diesel fuel additive that makes sense to you.

2) Consistently add it your diesel fuel, every time.

Unless you live in the middle of the Mojave, water in fuel issues are what most of us have to contend with. A decent fuel additive will help you manage this problem, and address other issues like Lubricity too.

Rgds, D.

 

[SI2305]

What type of Redline?

Hello all, sorry to keep this thread going indefinitely, but I do want to add some Redline to my system. Problem is, I have checked the website and I am not certain which of their numerous products I should be adding. Red Line 85 Plus Diesel Fuel Additive #70802 (1-12oz. Bottle) seems like a logical starting point, though it states it lacks a smoke suppressant. Does this mean my tractor will be producing black clouds like diesels of olde? Sorry, but I am still in uncharted territory (for me) and appreciate all the help that has gotten me through this minor crisis.

Thanks,

SI2305

 

[kuboman]

It's not the ULSD that has the affinity to water but the biodiesel they add to it.

 

[3930dave]

(Sorry SI, I don't know Redline enough to advise..... need CM back in here.......)

I have a lot still to learn about fuel chemistry.

I had heard that some aspects of todays refining process that is used to create ULSD ends up creating a situation where the fuel is more..... I'll say "receptive" to water vapour. I'm definitely not an organic chemist, so that's where my knowledge ends today.

Bacteria can grow in just about any environment, but I do have to wonder if the higher sulphur levels in days-of-olde diesel fuel ended up working as an-antimicrobial treatment built in ? The result would have been that when old high sulphur diesel might have had water in it, that resulting mix was less likely to support bacterial growth.....

Good biodiesel is likely fine. The feedback I've seen from guys on here in areas with well established biodiesel supplies is generally good. One problem you can get into is switching over - where I live there is little/no biodiesel - one of the reasons I always use a good fuel treatment is if you travel away from a no biodiesel area into a high content bio zone, the transition can perform enough rapid cleaning to clog a fuel filter.

Just things I've been scratching my head about....... still more to learn.......

Rgds, D.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm backkkk:laughing:
Read this:http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Diesel Fuel Catalyst Tech Info.pdf
Then if you have any questions call them at the number at the bottom of the pages. There is a winterized version which would be good this time of year....
Hope this helps.