help! Stables construction - doorway header details

richardbro · Jul 17, 2008

I'm stuck on a construction detail...

I'm build a single-story stick framed stable - I've got the walls up (2x6) and am waiting for the roof trusses to be delivered. There are two doorways; one at each end. They are 10 feet wide and I was intending on equipping each with 2 5-foot sliding doors.

The walls and ceiling will be 9 feet high. I haven't yet put any headers on the doorways so as it stands now the structure basically looks like '[ ]', where the top and bottom gaps are the doorways. I'm looking for design details on how to keep the doorways also at 9 feet and keep the headers in place without interfering with the first and last roof trusses. The headers will have to support the weight of the sliding doors and will have to resist the door's force that will try to topple them. I was intending in using 2 nailed up 2x12 for each header.

The details on how to nail all this together are cloudy in my mind - some photo examples from those who have built this might be a good idea.

I was thinking about using some simpson/strongtie connectors like ECC46 to fix the headers onto the 6x top wall plates, but that might be a special order that may come in too late.

Also, I'm not sure how the first/last roof trusses will fit into the header scheme when the header is at the same level as the truss - can the roof truss be moved over the 4" or so width of the header thickness? How will I need to compensate for that 4" on the exterior siding?

The alternative would be to frame the header in the walls (like other normal doors and windows) and have the doorways 11" lower that the ceilings. I'm not sure yet if my bx24 can get in an 8-foot opening with the ROPs up...

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Mike120 · Jul 17, 2008

This is why it's good to build your project on paper before you start nailing (PM-101). If, in fact, your building is like "[ ]" where the door opening is a foot or so less than the distance between the walls, then you have someplace to rest the header. Now your issue is the pitch of the roof and how much of the header you can trim. In typical stick construction a header is only supported by a 2X4 under it on each end. So depending on the width of the walls on each end, you should be able to rest the header on your top plate, angle trim it, and put your truss on the top plate as well.

richardbro · Jul 17, 2008

Thanks for the reply Mike,

The project changed as we discovered the costs and time involved - this was originally a 2-story 'monitor' style that was reduced to 1-story. So I'm kinda making it up as I go...

The width of the building is 36' and the doorway is 10', so I don't think there will be a need to trim the ends of the header.

I have plenty of space to rest the headers onto the top plate. However, my questions were:
- How do I fix the header to the top plate?
- Do I need to move over the first/last trusses to make room for the header, and how do I recover from that on the exterior siding?

I possible could nail the header into the first/last roof truss sided, aftr making sure to move the truss over enough to leave room for the header, and then re-enforce the first truss to the 2nd, 3rd, etc to spread out the pressure from the header on the first trusss...

Charlesaf3 · Jul 17, 2008

I can't quite picture what you are describing, but it sounds kind of awful I'm afraid.

There are ways of framing a door above the soffit line, but its complex and I don't think you can do it with trusses. Maybe do the first set of rafters stick, and the rest truss?

leaving out the top plate, which resting a header on a split top plate effectively is, is really not a good idea. Unless your goal is a funhouse wall.

You should really talk to an engineer and get this engineered. Otherwise odds are your local building inspector will make you rip it all out.

If you are willing to frame normally, you can save a few inches with LVLs instead of 2x12s

Charlesaf3 · Jul 17, 2008

hmm. How about making the LVL run the full width, so it is a top plate? Still have to stick frame that section instead of truss it. But that gives you 9' rough on your door.

Problem is LVLs are heavy. But you really need them to span a 10' opening, especially with heavy doors hanging on them. Can you get a contractor to just frame the gable ends? (not easy, I know)

richardbro · Jul 17, 2008

Yeah, I just spoke to my engineer about this - I think he thought I was on drugs... I will frame it the conventional way, right into the wall on jackstuds rather than on the top plates...

Lloyd_E · Jul 17, 2008

This is how we did my barn:

26.5'x30' barn
10'x10' door opening opposite ends with 10x5(2) sliding doors.
2x6 and scissor rafters upstairs.

Lloyd

MarkV · Jul 18, 2008

If you frame the header the traditional way and height is an issue you could us an LVL as header material. Ten foot is not a long span for an LVL and it would not have to be deep as the 111/2” the 2x12 is going to be. Most lumber yards that sell LVL’s can size it. This is the gable end of the structure and not carrying that much weight.

Although I have never done it, it would seem that you could set your gable end truss on the top plate so it was flush with the wall face and attach the header to and behind the truss. Fill in enough of the voids with dead wood to attach the door track hardware to. The truss is what carries the roof load so this header is not doing much more than carrying the door and siding above it.

MarkV

Mike120 · Jul 18, 2008

If I understand you correctly, your building is 36' wide with 10' openings, so you have 2-13' end walls built with 2X6 studs and a 2X6 top plate. That's no problem!

I assume your truss is wider than the building to provide eaves. Set the truss on the top plate in the front and put the header in back of it. Toenail both into the top plate. This will give you a uniform surface in front for your siding. After your siding is on, bolt your door rail through the truss into the header. You're not doing anything unusual. I've attached a sketch.

Depending on your truss spacing, your wind loads, and your roof framing details, you may want to put hurricane straps between your walls and trusses, other than that, toenailing and gravity will hold everything together.

richardbro · Jul 18, 2008

Wow, thanks for that great reply Mike!

Lloyd - I saw in one picture a top-plate spanning the doorway and then in another some (2x10?) structure resting on top of all the walls - what is that?

Yes, you've described my situation perfectly. Together with Lloyd's pictures I think I have a plan:

- First I need to attach both halves of the building together with a 2x6 top-plate. Current the studded walls have a single top plate so the second is needed anyways. Therefore a single 2x6 top-plate will span the 10' doorways. My 2x6s are 16' long so that shouldn't be a problem.
- Then I get the roof trusses installed (I'm hiring this out) and once that's done I can nail up the 12' 2x12 headers to the top-plate and to the truss.

I guess I could fill in 1.5 inch where the door hanger bolts will go within the truss openings in order to reduce bending the bolts.

I'll run this by my engineer...