frank_f15
Super Member, Rest in Peace
what part of N.Y state are you? think you might want to check out some new ones for that price. we have a framtrac dealer in town and he seems to be selling quite a few of them
Help we need to buy our first tractor!
- Thread starter jfcraig
- Start date
- Views: 2342
MBDiagMan
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Messages
- 416
- Location
- Sumner, Texas
- Tractor
- John Deere 5045D, Grasshopper 61" with PowerVac,Gator 825i, Cub Cadet 2145
Since you claim to be "city folks," you probably won't be doing your own tractor maintenance and repair. If that is the case, you really should make your brand decision based on the quality of the nearby dealers.
Ask your neighbors who the best tractor dealers in the area are.
Also, unless you have particular difficult soil to dig in, you will be better off using a manual posthole digger rather than a tractor mounted auger. I have had an auger in the past and just stopped using it. By the time you mess around positioning the tractor for a posthole, you can have two holes dug with a manual posthole digger. If you are in rocky or super heavy clay soil, then the auger will be worth having.
Although I spent a little of my time as a child and teenager on my Grandfathers ranch, I too am a "city boy" turned rancher. I've been here 18 years and raised my kids from first grade on out in the boondocks. It's been the greatest thing that I've ever done for myself and my family.
Enjoy,
Doc
Ask your neighbors who the best tractor dealers in the area are.
Also, unless you have particular difficult soil to dig in, you will be better off using a manual posthole digger rather than a tractor mounted auger. I have had an auger in the past and just stopped using it. By the time you mess around positioning the tractor for a posthole, you can have two holes dug with a manual posthole digger. If you are in rocky or super heavy clay soil, then the auger will be worth having.
Although I spent a little of my time as a child and teenager on my Grandfathers ranch, I too am a "city boy" turned rancher. I've been here 18 years and raised my kids from first grade on out in the boondocks. It's been the greatest thing that I've ever done for myself and my family.
Enjoy,
Doc
Long/FarmTrac dealer here...
As some of the others have said the price tag seems awful steep, I know things run higher up north and more dealers get "MSRP" for their stuff, but there is no way that machine is worth what he wants for it. It is a great machine and will do everything you need it to do (unless of course you want to cut hay) but I would see if they would back off that price.
As some of the others have said the price tag seems awful steep, I know things run higher up north and more dealers get "MSRP" for their stuff, but there is no way that machine is worth what he wants for it. It is a great machine and will do everything you need it to do (unless of course you want to cut hay) but I would see if they would back off that price.
Thanks to everyone who gave us such great advice. We have compiled a rough list of our tasks in order of importance. We realize that a compact tractor cannot be expected to do major pasture/crop work, so will hire others to come in with their equipment to do what we can't. The areas where we will keep animas are about 60-70% fenced.
Different parts of the barns will be divided for different species, so this tractor will have to get in and out of tight places regularly, and if it cannot get in somewhere, it will sit outside and we will bring the debris to the tractor.
We will need someone to do major repairs on the tractor, but despite our "city folk" upbringings, we are all very good with general auto maintenance and our farm mananger was an auto mechanic for many years with about 5+ years of tractor repair experience. Here's the list:
-Clean stalls and move debris (Is there some sort of an open cart that can be hitched to the back to carry larger quantities than just the size of the bucket?)
-Carry compost material to compost pile
-Carry various supplies to and from work areas (some low grade hills, mostly flat)
-Drag fallen trees from wooded areas
-Snowplow driveway (flat) and around barns/structures (mostly flat, some hills)
-Bush hog parts of pasture and around ponds (if possible)
-Dig post holes (previous owner used an auger attachment w/no prob)
-Drag or lift dead weight up to 1500 pounds (dead cattle, sheep etc.)
-Use backhoe to dig trenches to pipe water into the barns and other structures.
-Seed various areas (if possible--not necessarily the fields, rather the areas around the house that need to be reseeded with grass)
-Pull a small hay baler (if possible--not essential--we will pay someone to bale the bulk of the fields and spread seed using their equipment)
We have decided, as you suggested, to pass on the "Farmtrac Deal" and pursue a newer tractor. A friend recently turned us onto the Kubota L3130 because he thought it was a good tractor for the money. We don't need the tractor for several months (3-4), so have some time to research this. Basically we need a workhorse with a decent reputation that is easy for anyone to operate. I know we probably can't afford the Big 3. We aren't opposed to buying a used tractor either, we just want something decent at around 15K or so. I believe there are some tractor auction places in our area.
You guys are great, thanks so much for your input. Oh and for the person who asked, we are located in Central New York, around Ithaca.
Laura & John
Different parts of the barns will be divided for different species, so this tractor will have to get in and out of tight places regularly, and if it cannot get in somewhere, it will sit outside and we will bring the debris to the tractor.
We will need someone to do major repairs on the tractor, but despite our "city folk" upbringings, we are all very good with general auto maintenance and our farm mananger was an auto mechanic for many years with about 5+ years of tractor repair experience. Here's the list:
-Clean stalls and move debris (Is there some sort of an open cart that can be hitched to the back to carry larger quantities than just the size of the bucket?)
-Carry compost material to compost pile
-Carry various supplies to and from work areas (some low grade hills, mostly flat)
-Drag fallen trees from wooded areas
-Snowplow driveway (flat) and around barns/structures (mostly flat, some hills)
-Bush hog parts of pasture and around ponds (if possible)
-Dig post holes (previous owner used an auger attachment w/no prob)
-Drag or lift dead weight up to 1500 pounds (dead cattle, sheep etc.)
-Use backhoe to dig trenches to pipe water into the barns and other structures.
-Seed various areas (if possible--not necessarily the fields, rather the areas around the house that need to be reseeded with grass)
-Pull a small hay baler (if possible--not essential--we will pay someone to bale the bulk of the fields and spread seed using their equipment)
We have decided, as you suggested, to pass on the "Farmtrac Deal" and pursue a newer tractor. A friend recently turned us onto the Kubota L3130 because he thought it was a good tractor for the money. We don't need the tractor for several months (3-4), so have some time to research this. Basically we need a workhorse with a decent reputation that is easy for anyone to operate. I know we probably can't afford the Big 3. We aren't opposed to buying a used tractor either, we just want something decent at around 15K or so. I believe there are some tractor auction places in our area.
You guys are great, thanks so much for your input. Oh and for the person who asked, we are located in Central New York, around Ithaca.
Laura & John
rockyridgefarm
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I know we probably can't afford the Big 3. )</font>
But, get bids on offerings from them!
I have a John Deere, and the price on it was lower than what I was bid on several second tier machines... It was even cheaper than many used machines I looked at. I saw similar deals on Kubiota and NH.
The Kub 3130/3430, Deere 4310/4410, and NHCase 33 machines would fit your needs vicely. Getting into small places and doing big jobs is where these mid chassis machines really shine...
And the financing options are usually very good. Since CUTS hold their value so well, they make a lot of sense to finance, if that is the way that will work for you...
But, get bids on offerings from them!
I have a John Deere, and the price on it was lower than what I was bid on several second tier machines... It was even cheaper than many used machines I looked at. I saw similar deals on Kubiota and NH.
The Kub 3130/3430, Deere 4310/4410, and NHCase 33 machines would fit your needs vicely. Getting into small places and doing big jobs is where these mid chassis machines really shine...
And the financing options are usually very good. Since CUTS hold their value so well, they make a lot of sense to finance, if that is the way that will work for you...
PowerTrom425
Silver Member
Welcome to TBN.....I have resisted responding 'til now but may I suggest you consider a PowerTrac tractor. With the exception of the baler, it can do everything on your list and much much more. The PT425, which I have, (and swear by) has an inside turning radius of 3'±....perfect for cleaning out tight spots. All the attachments are front mounted, and quick attached. Just below I've copied and pasted their number and website from the top of this page....
Buy American-made Power Trac equipment direct and SAVE up to 30%!!!
12 models of Articulated, 4WD Tractors, Attachments, and Trailer Packages available.
Call 1-800-THE-YARD or click on www.power-trac.com for more details.
I've had my PT425 for 4 months and it is a workhorse. PowerTrac has no dealer network...you buy directly from them in south-western Virginia, but the machines are very reliable and easy to service. I think anyone buying a tractor is crazy if they don't at least look into a PowerTrac....and for you it seems ideal...
Good luck in your search. By the way, I spent the formative years of my live (5-14) in Burdett, and went to church in Ithaca....nice country!! Feel free to pm me if you like...Tom
Buy American-made Power Trac equipment direct and SAVE up to 30%!!!
12 models of Articulated, 4WD Tractors, Attachments, and Trailer Packages available.
Call 1-800-THE-YARD or click on www.power-trac.com for more details.
I've had my PT425 for 4 months and it is a workhorse. PowerTrac has no dealer network...you buy directly from them in south-western Virginia, but the machines are very reliable and easy to service. I think anyone buying a tractor is crazy if they don't at least look into a PowerTrac....and for you it seems ideal...
Good luck in your search. By the way, I spent the formative years of my live (5-14) in Burdett, and went to church in Ithaca....nice country!! Feel free to pm me if you like...Tom
PowerTrom425
Silver Member
Below is part of another thread that reiterates my and Bob Shurka's sentiments. Happy tractoring......Tom
PowerTrom425
Bronze Member
Reged: 09/04/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Newton, New Hampshire
Re: I need help also on picking a new machine. [Re: WIshane]
#540280 - 12/03/04 08:43 AM Edit Reply Quote
WIshane... I suggest you take half a moment to check out ....
Buy American-made Power Trac equipment direct and SAVE up to 30%!!!
12 models of Articulated, 4WD Tractors, Attachments, and Trailer Packages available.
Call 1-800-THE-YARD or click on www.power-trac.com for more details.
I just copied/pasted their listing from the top of this page. In full disclosure, I am a proud owner of a PT425. Very versatile machine.....all the attachments are quick attach front mounted. You can mow, plow snow, blow snow, plant trees, landscape, build retaining walls and more!
I admit that I may be....okay,,,,I am biased , but I think that if a person doesn't at least check out the PowerTrac line as part of their buying decision process, they're crazy!! That being said,,,,,,have a great day, and let us know what you end up with.....Tom
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Bob_Skurka
Elite Member
Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 3467
Loc: Lowell, IN - The sunny side of Chicago
Re: I need help also on picking a new machine. [Re: WIshane]
#540285 - 12/03/04 08:54 AM Edit Reply Quote
Shane, I'll second the point to look at the PowerTrac, although I would go larger than the PT425. Probably look for something in the 30hp diesel range.
Now let me disclose my point of view. I have a NH TC24 and a Kubota B2910. Both are excellent machines, both amaze me with their abilities, even if I occasionally complain about them.
But I was looking for a garden tractor replacement this spring and ended up looking at the smalleer Power Trac models (PT422) and was simply astounded by how flexible these machines are and how often they are overlooked. I was really looking for an excellent lawn mower and what I found with PT is that they are excellent tractors but just pretty darn good lawn mowers. As I already had 2 other tractors and more implements than I can fit into my garage, I really didn't want to start over again.
IF I WAS IN A POSITION WHERE I HAD NO TRACTOR then I would say that PowerTrac would be at, or very near, the top of my list of choices. And for the uses you are talking about (major landscaping plans) I can think of no machine that will do the job as well as fast.
Now the downside is you don't get a dealer to help you, and that is a big downside in my mind. The PT guys, however, seem to report that the factory direct arrangement seems to work very well in getting problems resolved if/when they arrise.
Sometimes I'm tired, the rest of the time I'm sleeping . . . I think it is because I'm a father.
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PowerTrom425
Bronze Member
Reged: 09/04/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Newton, New Hampshire
Re: I need help also on picking a new machine. [Re: Bob_Skurka]
#540287 - 12/03/04 09:05 AM Edit Reply Quote
I don't know if you recall Bob, but you are the one that originally turned me on to PowerTrac. Thanks! I was initially put off by the no-dealer-network thing, but overcame my angst on that issue. The tractor is perfect for me.
Shane, you might want to check out the PowerTrac forum here on TBN.... Good luck,,,Tom
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PowerTrom425
Bronze Member
Reged: 09/04/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Newton, New Hampshire
Re: I need help also on picking a new machine. [Re: WIshane]
#540280 - 12/03/04 08:43 AM Edit Reply Quote
WIshane... I suggest you take half a moment to check out ....
Buy American-made Power Trac equipment direct and SAVE up to 30%!!!
12 models of Articulated, 4WD Tractors, Attachments, and Trailer Packages available.
Call 1-800-THE-YARD or click on www.power-trac.com for more details.
I just copied/pasted their listing from the top of this page. In full disclosure, I am a proud owner of a PT425. Very versatile machine.....all the attachments are quick attach front mounted. You can mow, plow snow, blow snow, plant trees, landscape, build retaining walls and more!
I admit that I may be....okay,,,,I am biased , but I think that if a person doesn't at least check out the PowerTrac line as part of their buying decision process, they're crazy!! That being said,,,,,,have a great day, and let us know what you end up with.....Tom
Post Extras: Print Post | Remind Me! | Notify Moderator | E-Mail Post
Bob_Skurka
Elite Member
Reged: 07/01/03
Posts: 3467
Loc: Lowell, IN - The sunny side of Chicago
Re: I need help also on picking a new machine. [Re: WIshane]
#540285 - 12/03/04 08:54 AM Edit Reply Quote
Shane, I'll second the point to look at the PowerTrac, although I would go larger than the PT425. Probably look for something in the 30hp diesel range.
Now let me disclose my point of view. I have a NH TC24 and a Kubota B2910. Both are excellent machines, both amaze me with their abilities, even if I occasionally complain about them.
But I was looking for a garden tractor replacement this spring and ended up looking at the smalleer Power Trac models (PT422) and was simply astounded by how flexible these machines are and how often they are overlooked. I was really looking for an excellent lawn mower and what I found with PT is that they are excellent tractors but just pretty darn good lawn mowers. As I already had 2 other tractors and more implements than I can fit into my garage, I really didn't want to start over again.
IF I WAS IN A POSITION WHERE I HAD NO TRACTOR then I would say that PowerTrac would be at, or very near, the top of my list of choices. And for the uses you are talking about (major landscaping plans) I can think of no machine that will do the job as well as fast.
Now the downside is you don't get a dealer to help you, and that is a big downside in my mind. The PT guys, however, seem to report that the factory direct arrangement seems to work very well in getting problems resolved if/when they arrise.
Sometimes I'm tired, the rest of the time I'm sleeping . . . I think it is because I'm a father.
Post Extras: Print Post | Remind Me! | Notify Moderator | E-Mail Post
PowerTrom425
Bronze Member
Reged: 09/04/04
Posts: 69
Loc: Newton, New Hampshire
Re: I need help also on picking a new machine. [Re: Bob_Skurka]
#540287 - 12/03/04 09:05 AM Edit Reply Quote
I don't know if you recall Bob, but you are the one that originally turned me on to PowerTrac. Thanks! I was initially put off by the no-dealer-network thing, but overcame my angst on that issue. The tractor is perfect for me.
Shane, you might want to check out the PowerTrac forum here on TBN.... Good luck,,,Tom
Post Extras: Print Post | Remind Me! | Notify Moderator | E-Mail Post
Libertine
Gold Member
jfcraig:
This may not be feasible in your case, but what I did before buying a permanent tractor was to purchase an old International Super C as a "practice" tractor to see what I really wanted before laying out 10,000s on a new unit. Learned a lot and ended up with a NH TC40 (am not necessarily suggesting that should be your choice though, although I am very happy with mine).
Your list of "tasks" was good idea. The smaller sized tractors will easily handle most of those except for two. If you need 1,500 lbs of lift and if you are planning to mount a BH, strongly suggest going with a mid sized to larger CUT (JD 990 and up, NH TC35/40/45, KUB 3810 or thereabouts - weight of tractor by itself 3,000 lbs M/L). These should be buyable at around 15k-16k (your stated budget). Of course, if all you are planning for the BH is pipe trenches, do you really need a BH yourself? Trenching machines are available for rent which will work quicker. You should look at hydraulic flow and will need at least 10 GPM M/L minimum. Also, if you buy new get extra remotes-you may not need them now but may wish you had them in the future. As far a pulling a small square hay baler, you can easily do that with the above models. Around here operating older square balers are available for around $1.5k +/-. I paid that for an old McCormick in good operating condition and it included a hay rake (January '04).
As far as buying a tractor at an "auction" per your post, would strongly urge against that, unless you have a good friend who really knows tractors to help you. It's easy to get stuck.
Several people have recommended the PowerTrac. I am unfamiliar with them as far as never having used or even examined one in the flesh. For some applications they look very good, but, I am still partial to the traditional tractor as more flexible.
Take care, good luck and best wishes for the holidays.
JEH
This may not be feasible in your case, but what I did before buying a permanent tractor was to purchase an old International Super C as a "practice" tractor to see what I really wanted before laying out 10,000s on a new unit. Learned a lot and ended up with a NH TC40 (am not necessarily suggesting that should be your choice though, although I am very happy with mine).
Your list of "tasks" was good idea. The smaller sized tractors will easily handle most of those except for two. If you need 1,500 lbs of lift and if you are planning to mount a BH, strongly suggest going with a mid sized to larger CUT (JD 990 and up, NH TC35/40/45, KUB 3810 or thereabouts - weight of tractor by itself 3,000 lbs M/L). These should be buyable at around 15k-16k (your stated budget). Of course, if all you are planning for the BH is pipe trenches, do you really need a BH yourself? Trenching machines are available for rent which will work quicker. You should look at hydraulic flow and will need at least 10 GPM M/L minimum. Also, if you buy new get extra remotes-you may not need them now but may wish you had them in the future. As far a pulling a small square hay baler, you can easily do that with the above models. Around here operating older square balers are available for around $1.5k +/-. I paid that for an old McCormick in good operating condition and it included a hay rake (January '04).
As far as buying a tractor at an "auction" per your post, would strongly urge against that, unless you have a good friend who really knows tractors to help you. It's easy to get stuck.
Several people have recommended the PowerTrac. I am unfamiliar with them as far as never having used or even examined one in the flesh. For some applications they look very good, but, I am still partial to the traditional tractor as more flexible.
Take care, good luck and best wishes for the holidays.
JEH
Varmintmist
Platinum Member
-Clean stalls and move debris (Is there some sort of an open cart that can be hitched to the back to carry larger quantities than just the size of the bucket?)
........
Poop spreader /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Load her up an put it on the field. Actually you want to pile your poop and let it sit before you spread it. Good place for the compost to go to.
......
-Carry compost material to compost pile
......
Loader bucket
.....
-Carry various supplies to and from work areas (some low grade hills, mostly flat)
......
carry all, 75 bucks at tractor supply or any implement sales place. A few old planks and some new stove bolts and you have a flatbed for the 3 pt hitch
.......
-Drag fallen trees from wooded areas
.......
Chain to the draw bar.
..........
-Snowplow driveway (flat) and around barns/structures (mostly flat, some hills)
.....
Backblade. A light duty 6 foot goes about 200-250 bucks and that will move snow. A nice one that swings, tilts and extends (wish I bought one /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif) is what you want, they go around 400
.......
-Bush hog parts of pasture and around ponds (if possible)
.....
You can get a 5 foot brush hog for around 800 +-. You need at least 27 eng hp to run one IMHO. If you get into heavy stuff (rain flattened hay) a 5 foot hog will make a smaller tractor work hard. But it will work fine.
.......
-Dig post holes (previous owner used an auger attachment w/no prob)
.....
400 bucks with auger
.......
-Drag or lift dead weight up to 1500 pounds (dead cattle, sheep etc.)
........
Chain if you are not squeamish /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif or roll it on the carry all with the FEL then hook up to the 3pt hitch.
.......
-Use backhoe to dig trenches to pipe water into the barns and other structures.
........
Hoe is 7K +-. Any machine you get that will dig more than 4 feet will do. You can probably hire it out cheaper.
........
-Seed various areas (if possible--not necessarily the fields, rather the areas around the house that need to be reseeded with grass)
.......
Hand seeder from Agway, about 20 bucks. Put the spouse on the carry all and drive him/her around while they turn the handle. Works better with 2 people and a pickup. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
........
-Pull a small hay baler (if possible--not essential--we will pay someone to bale the bulk of the fields and spread seed using their equipment)
.......
Ahhhh, now here is the problem. If you want to pull a small baler, you are getting into the 40 hp range min. A heavy 35 hp will do the job to with a pony motor on the baler. If you want to cut the hay, rake the hay, kick the hay, then you dont need more than a 30 +- machine to do any of the tasks you have listed. I have done every one with a 27 eng hp tractor. Except running a baler and seeding. ) pickup is faster, walking is good for you if you cant get a driver /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
The other thing that you might want to think of is feeding round bales. If you do that then a small tractor wont carry the baler. You also need a pretty stout machine to lift and move the bales. If you are feeding round bales, find out how big they are, they are different weights. Then, while shopping for the tractor, pay attention to the specs on the loader and 3 pt. A bale spear on the 3 pt will do the job, but one on the loader would be nice. About the minimum tractor that would comfortably do a round bale on the front is going to be 35 hp. (it will be red to, starts with a M /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
........
Poop spreader /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Load her up an put it on the field. Actually you want to pile your poop and let it sit before you spread it. Good place for the compost to go to.
......
-Carry compost material to compost pile
......
Loader bucket
.....
-Carry various supplies to and from work areas (some low grade hills, mostly flat)
......
carry all, 75 bucks at tractor supply or any implement sales place. A few old planks and some new stove bolts and you have a flatbed for the 3 pt hitch
.......
-Drag fallen trees from wooded areas
.......
Chain to the draw bar.
..........
-Snowplow driveway (flat) and around barns/structures (mostly flat, some hills)
.....
Backblade. A light duty 6 foot goes about 200-250 bucks and that will move snow. A nice one that swings, tilts and extends (wish I bought one /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif) is what you want, they go around 400
.......
-Bush hog parts of pasture and around ponds (if possible)
.....
You can get a 5 foot brush hog for around 800 +-. You need at least 27 eng hp to run one IMHO. If you get into heavy stuff (rain flattened hay) a 5 foot hog will make a smaller tractor work hard. But it will work fine.
.......
-Dig post holes (previous owner used an auger attachment w/no prob)
.....
400 bucks with auger
.......
-Drag or lift dead weight up to 1500 pounds (dead cattle, sheep etc.)
........
Chain if you are not squeamish /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif or roll it on the carry all with the FEL then hook up to the 3pt hitch.
.......
-Use backhoe to dig trenches to pipe water into the barns and other structures.
........
Hoe is 7K +-. Any machine you get that will dig more than 4 feet will do. You can probably hire it out cheaper.
........
-Seed various areas (if possible--not necessarily the fields, rather the areas around the house that need to be reseeded with grass)
.......
Hand seeder from Agway, about 20 bucks. Put the spouse on the carry all and drive him/her around while they turn the handle. Works better with 2 people and a pickup. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
........
-Pull a small hay baler (if possible--not essential--we will pay someone to bale the bulk of the fields and spread seed using their equipment)
.......
Ahhhh, now here is the problem. If you want to pull a small baler, you are getting into the 40 hp range min. A heavy 35 hp will do the job to with a pony motor on the baler. If you want to cut the hay, rake the hay, kick the hay, then you dont need more than a 30 +- machine to do any of the tasks you have listed. I have done every one with a 27 eng hp tractor. Except running a baler and seeding. ) pickup is faster, walking is good for you if you cant get a driver /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
The other thing that you might want to think of is feeding round bales. If you do that then a small tractor wont carry the baler. You also need a pretty stout machine to lift and move the bales. If you are feeding round bales, find out how big they are, they are different weights. Then, while shopping for the tractor, pay attention to the specs on the loader and 3 pt. A bale spear on the 3 pt will do the job, but one on the loader would be nice. About the minimum tractor that would comfortably do a round bale on the front is going to be 35 hp. (it will be red to, starts with a M /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Dutch445
Elite Member
John,
Did you get my PM?
There's a lot of info for you to consider!
Keep in mind one thing. As important as the machine is, the dealership where you will buy parts, get service, buy future implements, get advice etc is JUST AS, if not MORE important, than the machine itself! I think many TBN members will vouch for this, especially if you have a problem down the road.
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Did you get my PM?
There's a lot of info for you to consider!
Keep in mind one thing. As important as the machine is, the dealership where you will buy parts, get service, buy future implements, get advice etc is JUST AS, if not MORE important, than the machine itself! I think many TBN members will vouch for this, especially if you have a problem down the road.
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
