Help with MF GC 1705 to 1720 series Power Beyond...

[WranglerX]

First off let me say that Massey Ferguson for the 1700 series has a statement in their sales brochure that Power Beyond is available in this series of tractors... Even gives a part number (but search pushes me to a John Deere PB site - Oh Poo) ...Now when I query local MF dealer and AGCO corporate, both do not have a clue about Power Beyond for this series tractor...

I have learned the hydraulic power comes from pump to power steering which robs about 2.5 GPM of the total of about 9 GPM pump puts out, then goes on to FEL valve... Here is where questions start... What valve assembly does MF use on small GC series of SCUT tractors... Its joystick operated and tucked up under cowl so I really can not see anything with out removing cowl.... If anyone knows what valve by brand and part number (Nimco or the likes) please help me out here.... Or maybe it is MF (Iseki) proprietary...

I have diagram of hydraulic system for the GC series and it actual shows a block for back hoe hydraulic valve assembly (1710 and 1720) and it appears to come off PB port of the FEL valve but diagram gets a little fuzzy in that area and it may come off "control valve" on output of pump at HST... I have 1715 so no back hoe plumbing...

With out tearing apart the tractor (yet) does anyone know the particular FEL valve assembly that MF (Iseki) uses and does it have standard PB port... Everything I have been able to see in tractors manual indicate PB port but there is no clear pictures of what/where it may be...

One of the original aspects of buying this tractor was because of PB mentioned is sales brochure.... Thoughts were going through my head as to run a log splitter or what ever, BUT many comments ( in some early queries some time ago) were that the pump output rate would be too slow for log splitter, so we don't need to go there, unless I decide to build a log splitter to match me being slow....

Anyone that has good documentation on back hoe hydraulics for the GC 1710-1720 and how it connects in system would really help....

It now become a challenge for me to possibly create a PB system if I can find specifics on where to connect into system (PB port) and get return to "tank"..... The process of having a couple of hoses made going to QD fitting on rear and loop around hose is not much of a mystery... But where to connect?



#6 is back hoe valve block
#5 is FEL valve block
#23 is (I believe ) 3PH control valve

At some point one realized block diagram in not really clear....

Any enlightenment appreciated...

Dale

 

[coldsteelva]

This is the FEL valve numbers



This is the main output valve

 

[WranglerX]

View attachment 596648

This is the FEL valve numbers

View attachment 596649

This is the main output valve

Thank you, but I already have that data and its not much help.... If the control valve ports where actually identified and how they were interconnected into "the system" it would be more help...

Dale

 

[cdaigle430]

All I can say i its not a true PB as its also used to power the 3PH. If you dont have the hoses connected properly even without the BH the 3 PH will not work. So one house is def return to tank but the third Im not sure. The BH flow chart really should give you some ideas.

 

[WranglerX]

Well... The two pic below are flow paths for hydraulics that I think I am interested in.... But there are conflicts on how drawing depicts flow paths.... At least in my mind, having trouble with PB port of BH valve (6) and where it goes and there seem to be multiple connections to FEl valve that are not quite correct in my thinking....





Dazed and confused...

Dale

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

All I can say i its not a true PB as its also used to power the 3PH. If you dont have the hoses connected properly even without the BH the 3 PH will not work. So one house is def return to tank but the third Im not sure. The BH flow chart really should give you some ideas.

I agree. Even though the flow diagram is of poor resolution, best I see is they tee the power beyond to service a backhoe and the 3 pt. But, since you can't use both at the same time, it may not matter.

I did a little Googling and figured out that we might not care about the GC1715 tractor parts list but may really be interested in the DL100 FEL parts list. In that parts listing, the FEL valve is clearly shown, including the power beyond sleeve.

Go to AGCO Parts Books (If I linked it correctly). The power beyond port is in the typical location for most monoblock FEL valves. It is on the outboard side, most aft port with the power beyond sleeve installed.

I hope I found the right parts listing. At any rate, at that website, search for DL100 instead of the tractor model number and you get parts diagrams for the FEL. Look at the Valve assembly for the location of the PB port and the valve kit to see hose routing.

As the OP knows, it would be a mostly simple matter to remove the hose off the FEL PB port and attach a hose pair (with QDs) to the rear of the tractor and back to wherever that original hose's other end was attached. It appears the hose off the PB port has JIC fittings, so it would be simple to have custom hoses made locally or to buy standard hoses from one of the common internet suppliers.

 

[WranglerX]

Actually my interpretation of diagram in first picture of colored lines is wrong... In this image the purple block IS actually out line of FEL control block....

Still the "connection" in yellow circle bothers me....



It would appear the is a PB port on FEL not being uses but BH power is from control valve, so either may be a power (P) source for added PB valve body...

Actually my tractor has the DL95 FEL BUT it should have same FEL mono block....

Still dazed and confused...

Dale

 

[WranglerX]

I get the fact that one of the two plugs in mono block is a PB port and needs adapter if uses and can be plumbed to a power (P) port of downstream mono block... And I understand PB port should be indicated on monoblock but not sure about how graphic is oriented from parts book there for two arrows....



Still wondering about mechanical connection to "control block" though looks as if it may be there just plugged and maybe control valve lever limited to its travel, on non BH tractor?

So much speculation so little facts....

Dale

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

Actually my interpretation of diagram in first picture of colored lines is wrong... In this image the purple block IS actually out line of FEL control block....

Still the "connection" in yellow circle bothers me....

View attachment 596689

It would appear the is a PB port on FEL not being uses but BH power is from control valve, so either may be a power (P) source for added PB valve body...

Actually my tractor has the DL95 FEL BUT it should have same FEL mono block....

Still dazed and confused...

Dale

That is the connection cdaigle430 commented on. I agree that it doesn't seem to agree with normal Open Center design, but it doesn't appear to hurt since you can't use the Backhoe and 3pt at the same time.

I don't understand your concern that the BH power comes from some control valve. Given your yellow circle, the left branch goes to the 3pt, the right branch goes to the BH, the up branch is PB out from the FEL. Excepting having a Tee in a supposedly serial circuit, its fine.

I get the fact that one of the two plugs in mono block is a PB port and needs adapter if uses and can be plumbed to a power (P) port of downstream mono block... And I understand PB port should be indicated on monoblock but not sure about how graphic is oriented from parts book there for two arrows....

View attachment 596690

Still wondering about mechanical connection to "control block" though looks as if it may be there just plugged and maybe control valve lever limited to its travel, on non BH tractor?

So much speculation so little facts....

Dale

I think you may be reading too much into what is going on. It seems rather straight forward to me.

Your FEL valve already has a power beyond plug on it. It has to to supply the 3pt. As previously stated, it is like every other generic monoblock valve. Go climb over your tractor and see if you can visualize some of the parts and hose routing. Your FEL valve should have 7 lines on it right now. A1, B1 and A2, B2 for the FEL functions. Pressure in (P), Tank (T), and power beyond (PB, but probably unlabeled). For your knowledge, note that Tank is used for the return fluid from the FEL functions only. If the FEL valve is not actuated, there is no flow there. All unused fluid (available for other valves downstream) through the valve passes out PB. Eventually, PB on the last valve in the series becomes tank. If you have port plugs in the FEL valve, they are alternate locations for P and T. This is very typical of monoblock valves to support different hose routing needs.

One thing we do not know right now. Given you don't have a backhoe right now, how does the FEL to 3pt hose route? Is it hardline or hose? If hose, its is very trivial to add a hose loop to the rear of the tractor as previously mentioned. Hard line, not so much.

Also, I do not recall you stating what you will do with the PB capability given your hydraulic flow is insufficient for your log splitter needs.

 

[WranglerX]

First I will admit there was a lot of missteps and misunderstand on my part about different valves and flow paths....

Everything is under cowls at the moment and hard to see at the moment ....

Agree with the 7 lines attaching to FEL mono block....

All lines in chassis seem to be hard lines till hydraulics leave mono block to FEL QC's...

Think I have handle of flow paths now.... Power to BH (6) (not here in my case but for discussion yes) and 3PH (23) are actually "tee'd" off PB port of FEL mono block.... Still confused why PB (BP) port of BH (6) mono block would go back to a supply line... Think this is where I believe diagrams may be wrong, BH PB (BP) port should be plugged because there is no downstream valves to supply.... It makes no sense to loop it back to its own supply but as mentioned before probably does not hurt anything...



At this point I don't know what I may do if anything with PB IF I decide to go with it... Right now it's become a point to gain knowledge of hydraulic system, and if I were to do it, can it be done... Right now it is more of mental exercise than anything else...

Dale