Help with which implement to get

[Jeff396]

Hey, long time no post....it's been years!

I have a yard that is just too too hard to get grass to grow. I've put lime down until I'm blue in the face and it's still hard as a rock. I'm wondering what would be the best implement to get to break it up for planting. I thought a tiller but the fact that they cost a good bit plus I wonder if it could deal with this cement type dirt. I have trouble breaking the surface with my loader with a straight blade. I was wondering if a box blade with scarifiers (I think that's what they're called) would work or am open to other ideas. I need to get this place ready to sell (recession) and need to get my lawn in shape by next summer hopefully.

I have a Kubota B7500 with a loader, aerator, bagger and a 60 " deck if that helps. I have run the aerator over the ground several times so then my grass comes up, where it comes up, looking like a bad hair club for men experiment

I'd appreciate any help you can give.

Jeff

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

I guessing it's Red Clay

I'd use a disk, and haul in as much organic stuff as I could.
Maybe you can find someone who needs a horse barn cleaned out

Adding lime will only change the PH

 

[Ken45101]

Loosening up rock hard ground will still end up with rock hard ground after it rains and dries. Adding better material (organic and sand) will help.

I've used a disk to break up ground. A box blade with ripper teeth may work (or may not). A skid steer with a harley rake may do the job and leave a nice smooth surface (you can rent them).

 

[TripleR]

Agree with previous posts. I used the scarifiers on my BB to break mine up and then a tiller, but didn't add gypsum, sand or anything else. I got some good information from leonz on adding gypsum and such which I will be doing and maybe even redoing my yard this spring.

 

[Jeff396]

Thanks guys,

I've never seen a disk work so I'm having a hard time understanding how that works on hard clay. I do remember the builder using a Harley Rake. If I remember right it made quick work of it....a good thing when renting!

My next question is how much organic material will I need to do say 1 acre? I have no idea where to get horse stuff but I was intending on getting some top soil to blend in.

I was hoping my box blade idea was a good one so I could justify another implement to the wife

Jeff

 

[Ken45101]

A disc, with enough weight on it, will dig in an inch or two. The discs are angled so that they do more than just slice down. I have a section of 12" diameter telephone pole chained to mine for more weight.

A disc is of limited use. I used mine in 1999 when we built a house and I needed to level 8 acres. It sat unused until I did the yard work last year.

How much organic material? The more the better. Horse manure can usually be obtained free from most horse farms or stables but you'll have to haul it. However, it does tend to generate weeds. Might not be a problem if you keep it mowed well.

If you have sawmills in your area, you might be able to get saw dust. It will help although you will need to add nitrogen fertilizer (first # in fertilizer such as 20-3-6).

Buying topsoil? Beware of those that offer "shredded topsoil" or some such term. It's usually just ground up clay like you have although it may be dark in color. I remember one builder who claimed to have put in "topsoil". The only way it qualified was it was "on top" and if you fell in it, you would get "soiled".

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

My next question is how much organic material will I need to do say 1 acre?

LOL A LOT!!!

Unless you want to spend a ton of money, think of it as a long term project.
It will take several inches of organic material to make any immediate difference.

Or you could do it in sections, adding material and planting a "cover crop" that would in turn be building up the soil, and breaking up the clay with it's roots.

If you have to buy material, spreading bales of straw then disking it in would be one of the cheaper options.

 

[Stampeder]

If your soil is that hard and compacted then forget the disc.
Go get a one or two bottom plow, sink it down about 8 inches to 10 inches and go for it. Do this in the fall and leave it all winter. You'll be there forever trying to do it with a disc....I know, I made the same mistake.
If the lawn won't grow in the soil you're going to replace it anyway.
You will leave it as furrows over winter so the moisture can get in and break it up for you via the frost. Then in the spring go over it with the disc to smooth out the furrows and break up the rest of the lumps.
We used to plant potatoes in an area that was going to be a new lawn so that it would get organic matter in it quickly. No kidding, and this was the front lawn in the city. Also, good well composted horse manure works well. It will take a little while for this but you will have a good healthy lawn.:thumbsup:

I had to do this very thing with my pastures as they had been neglected for several years and now they are very lush and till very easily to the disc.

By the way, my own lawn is like yours right now. My wife wants to add a bunch of large flower beds (cuts down on mowing) and I will be doing as described above to the lawn parts.:thumbsup:

Good luck.

 

[kebo]

Thanks guys,

Hey Jeff, we might be neighbors! What part of SC are you in??

I've never seen a disk work so I'm having a hard time understanding how that works on hard clay. I do remember the builder using a Harley Rake. If I remember right it made quick work of it....a good thing when renting!

My next question is how much organic material will I need to do say 1 acre? I have no idea where to get horse stuff but I was intending on getting some top soil to blend in.

I was hoping my box blade idea was a good one so I could justify another implement to the wife

Jeff

Something to think about.... my next door neighbors are **** about a well manicured lawn on their 1/3acre lot. They've actually had two 18ton dump truck loads of top soil dumped in their driveway, and then they spread it out all by wheelbarrow and rakes.

So now they got about 3-8 inches of new dirt (their yard did have a little slope to it), at least in the back yard, not so much in the front. They have a pretty nice looking lawn now as you would hope/expect after that much work.

You might need to take the advice above about discing or ripping up your top layer as best you can, and then haul in some top soil and spread on top. Level it up with the BB you are going to buy. After that, you could either seed it with centipede, or sod it. Not gonna be cheap or the easy way out, but really it's probably the best way you're going to get a decent looking lawn to really grow.

Since you are looking to sell, you may not want to go to that much effort just to get a better sell price out of the house but, that would be your decision.

 

[Ken45101]

My wife wants to add a bunch of large flower beds (cuts down on mowing)

It may cut down on the mowing, but it increases the trimming and weeding a heck of a lot more! There is great beauty in being able to run the lawn mower over everything and keep it neat and trimmed!

When we moved here my wife wondered why there were no shrubs or gardens. She has planted them. I've tempted to bulldozed them all out and return to the simple life!

Ken

 

[Reg]

You can add ballast to a disk with 55 gallon plastic drums, over 400 lbs each when full and very easy to tune/adjust for penetration.

Other possibilities, if the area is small and you just want to rip it ONCE are a tooth bar for your loader bucket if you just want to go shallow and a sub-soiler if you want to break it up to some depth for improved drainage.
Both of these are quite cheap.

EDIT:
Yes to the horse manure idea.
You COULD get lucky if, for example, you could find someone who hauls it away from small back yard barns and needs somewhere to haul it to and dispose of it - though most want to be paid to take it and paid again to drop it somewhere else - nice biz to be in.
Second choice would be a small horse farm that has a small loader on a tractor and a willingness to load your truck a few times a week.
You could also get lucky with what else comes with the actual manure, e.g. hay, wood shavings, sawdust, whatever other bedding gets shoveled up by stall cleaners.
You aren't looking for the "gardener's gold" aspect of manure so much as the organic material bulk.
Yes you will get seeds, but if anything sprouts and you keep it mowed low they will die out eventually.

 

[clemsonfor]

You could use a boxblade with the rippers all the way down. Then haul ih horse or chicken poop get leaves and grass clippings, let them sit for a year then rent a tractor rototiller and till the whole area in, a tiller will till concrete hard dirt. This should allow at least the weed seeds in the material to grow and then encourage grass. Cow poop will work to.

 

[Reg]

This is SUBJECTIVE, but it is my PERSONAL opinion that horse manure has the least offensive odor of the various manures you are likely to find freely available.
If you plan to leave it on the ground near the house for even a few days this could be a very important issue.
The hay and pine shavings that you are likely to also get with horse manure soak up a lot of the odor as well, in fact you are likely to have a yard that smells as if it has been hosed down with Pinesol (-:
Not really, but the smell of pine shavings can significantly mask the smell of manure.

I compost manure and hay, basically I shovel the manure out of the trailer and put that down first, then cover it with leftover hay. It is just about odor free.

 

[Dubeast]

I just tried this in my R&D area in the yard =) I used a one bottom plow to turn over the entire area, removed all the bigger rocks lurking just below the surface. Went over it and over it with a york rake to get out even more rocks. Then used a box blade with scarifiers down mid way to flatten and get out any remaining rocks then box bladed again with no scarifiers. Quick final once over with a *gasp* hand rake and then threw some seed down and I'll see what happens... rain for the next 4 days so I'll see how hard the soil gets.

But I'm looking to re-do the yard next spring. I find the comment from the guy who said "plow it over and leave the furrows for the winter" interesting but I doubt my wife would want me to leave the front yard like that for a week, never mind all winter =)

 

[clemsonfor]

Another thing, as far as i know line does nothig to "loosen" up soil. It raises soil pH. Not a soils expert but has a soils course in college and am a forester, but far from an agronomist.

 

[jdfire]

Here's what I just did. Not sure if it's the RIGHT thing to do but it was some fun seat time. I used a two bottom plow, then a disc, then a box blade for some grading and finally a landscape rake. Then I broadcast some new seed and raked it in. It has rained a couple times since the last time I was there so hopefully I'll start seeing some results. Good luck with your project.

 

[nebraskasparks]

I echo the inputs from the other folks. I had a good garden but had soil that cracked and got hard after a few days of warm weather. I brought in nearly 4 semi loads of compost for 1/2 acre of garden. What did this do??? Everything including plants that looked like they came from Jack in the Beanstalk. Organic material can hold up to ten times it's weight in water and starts all the necessary life cycles in the soil that makes everything work for the better.

Lime on clay soil does in fact make concrete which is what you're up against.

I would get a soil test (use a hammer and chisel if necessary) before you add the organic matter.

Any questions on the results of your soil test...would be glad to help you interpret the data and what to add next.

You can usually get compost from landfill companies that are composting yard residues. They will also have a chemical analysis of the compost.

 

[JDGreenGrass]

Here's what I just did. Not sure if it's the RIGHT thing to do but it was some fun seat time. I used a two bottom plow, then a disc, then a box blade for some grading and finally a landscape rake. Then I broadcast some new seed and raked it in. It has rained a couple times since the last time I was there so hopefully I'll start seeing some results. Good luck with your project.

Wow, looks you and your tractor did a great job.

How much hp do you have in your tractor. Regardless, it did a fine job with that plow.!!:thumbsup:

 

[clemsonfor]

I think those older ford 16.. were in the low 20's to low 30s my guess is somewhere from 23-28 HP.

I just went and looked at tractordata.com.

It is a 27 Hp (engine) produced from 1992-97.

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/005/9/2/5928-ford-1620.html

 

[Jay4200]

My next question is how much organic material will I need to do say 1 acre?

27 tri-axles (@18 yards/load) for 4" coverage.

(40000/3/27) ~493

I just covered roughly a half-acre with organic loam (AKA poo) this summer, and used 13 loads of material.

JayC