Hire someone to build, or do it myself?

[MESSMAKER]

Around here I see that my neighbors are using metal carports and filling the sides in out of wood, it must work good because I see a lot of them. I personally do not have horses though.
John

If you are OK with the look. It is a good way to get a building structure with a roof on it.

 

[EddieWalker]

One of the biggest mistakes I see do it yourselfers do is cut corners without even realizing it. Pride of doing it yourself and getting it done seems to allow the person to overlook things that they would never accept when hiring a pro. When I build something for a client, I size materials to code or larger, even when there is no code. Since I'm doing it for hire, it has to be right and it has to last. My reputation and future depends on this so that I can make a living. I have tens of thousands of dollars in tools that most home owners don't have, and don't even know exist. Just like hiring a mechanic, you are paying for everything that he needs to get the job done, but also his experience. Not knowing, or even caring what you make as a mechanic, I would never insult you by saying all mechanics are crooks because they charge so much to fix something that I don't know how to fix, or I don't have to tools to do it, or I just don't want to do it. I would like to think that like a mechanic, my time is worth something when somebody hires me. Nobody has to hire me, and pay what I'm asking. That's on me and every other builder out there to come up with a competitive price that will get the job done, and done right. Low balling the price and cutting corners is never an option, so you either pay what I'm asking, or find somebody else.

As for building it yourself, this is about as easy a build as there is. Materials will be the big deciding factor in what it costs you. Go cheap with 4x4 posts and hope they don't twist on you after you are done is a risk that will save you money, but not one I would take. 6x6 posts will cost a lot more, but they are what I'd use. You need to decide your spacing of posts, then based on that spacing, size your purlins to the span. Again, it's easy to cut corners by using small lumber and maximum spacing, but then you get walls that more around and come loose over time. Nails are fast and easy, but they work loose over time. I never build an outdoor structure, or deck with nails. The roof is where you have a lot of options. A free span, flat roof on an angle is going to be the cheapest and easiest. I've seen people do this with 2x6's and get away with it, and I've seen them sag with 2x6's. I would use 2x8's on 24 inch centers with blocking down the middle at a minimum if you don't get snow. If you get snow, that needs to be factored into the sizing of your lumber and roof design. Building a gable roof with a pitch steep enough to handle snow might be what you need, which will increase the cost of the roof by at least twice, probably more. Shingles or metal for the roof? This also affects the cost since each go on differently and you need to plan for that. Shingles attach to sheething and metal attaches to purlins.

My last point is that most home owners do not know what a good contractor is or how to spot one. They often hire friends or family because they know that person and assume that he is going to do a great job because "everyone" says he is the best. These are the jobs I get hired to redo the most often. If somebody is good at what they are doing, they are not available to do it right away. They will be booked up into the future and you will have to wait for them to start. Right now, I'm booked up to October. Angies List is a good source for finding a contractor.


Eddie

 

[hr3]

If you have six quotes and they are similar in price then rest assured your contractors are not crooks. It's the cost of doing business.

You don't say where you are in your profile. The old rule of thumb was a contractor could double the cost of materials and cover his labor expense and then add profit. It still works on some projects. So go down to your box store and fill out a build sheet with everything you think you are going to need. Add ten percent for waste, twenty percent is more like it with the grade of help most contractors have to work with these days. Double that number, then add thirty percent for overhead and profit.

If the thirty percent seems unreasonable then figure in equipment rental, insurances, fuels, bs time entertaining dumb client questions etc.

An expense most clients don't consider is my liability insurance, it comes out to about five percent of the tab. That's insurance protecting me from you or yours doing something stupid and getting hurt while I'm doing the job or afterwards. That doesn't cover workmen's comp, me if I fall off the roof building your project etc. It only protects me by protecting you.

Don't feel like I'm picking on you. I get the same complaints from contractors when it comes to other contractors, lawyers, doctors, etc. Everyone assumes everyone else is a crook when the truth is we are all just trying to get by.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[springer]

i agree with you Dave.....why would he assume he will overpay. Contractors have to pay for workers comp., insurance, overtime,etc.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Not in Texas, all of the contractors I know that would be bidding on such a project don't pay overtime, insurances, etc. It's all done with contract labor or piecework. If the work is done outside of large city limits the only inspection required will be for electrical or septic.

i agree with you Dave.....why would he assume he will overpay. Contractors have to pay for workers comp., insurance, overtime,etc.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

One of the biggest mistakes I see do it yourselfers do is cut corners without even realizing it. Pride of doing it yourself and getting it done seems to allow the person to overlook things that they would never accept when hiring a pro. When I build something for a client, I size materials to code or larger, even when there is no code. Since I'm doing it for hire, it has to be right and it has to last. My reputation and future depends on this so that I can make a living. I have tens of thousands of dollars in tools that most home owners don't have, and don't even know exist. Just like hiring a mechanic, you are paying for everything that he needs to get the job done, but also his experience. Not knowing, or even caring what you make as a mechanic, I would never insult you by saying all mechanics are crooks because they charge so much to fix something that I don't know how to fix, or I don't have to tools to do it, or I just don't want to do it. I would like to think that like a mechanic, my time is worth something when somebody hires me. Nobody has to hire me, and pay what I'm asking. That's on me and every other builder out there to come up with a competitive price that will get the job done, and done right. Low balling the price and cutting corners is never an option, so you either pay what I'm asking, or find somebody else.

As for building it yourself, this is about as easy a build as there is. Materials will be the big deciding factor in what it costs you. Go cheap with 4x4 posts and hope they don't twist on you after you are done is a risk that will save you money, but not one I would take. 6x6 posts will cost a lot more, but they are what I'd use. You need to decide your spacing of posts, then based on that spacing, size your purlins to the span. Again, it's easy to cut corners by using small lumber and maximum spacing, but then you get walls that more around and come loose over time. Nails are fast and easy, but they work loose over time. I never build an outdoor structure, or deck with nails. The roof is where you have a lot of options. A free span, flat roof on an angle is going to be the cheapest and easiest. I've seen people do this with 2x6's and get away with it, and I've seen them sag with 2x6's. I would use 2x8's on 24 inch centers with blocking down the middle at a minimum if you don't get snow. If you get snow, that needs to be factored into the sizing of your lumber and roof design. Building a gable roof with a pitch steep enough to handle snow might be what you need, which will increase the cost of the roof by at least twice, probably more. Shingles or metal for the roof? This also affects the cost since each go on differently and you need to plan for that. Shingles attach to sheething and metal attaches to purlins.

My last point is that most home owners do not know what a good contractor is or how to spot one. They often hire friends or family because they know that person and assume that he is going to do a great job because "everyone" says he is the best. These are the jobs I get hired to redo the most often. If somebody is good at what they are doing, they are not available to do it right away. They will be booked up into the future and you will have to wait for them to start. Right now, I'm booked up to October. Angies List is a good source for finding a contractor.


Eddie

Eddie covered a lot of the good points very well. One of the things that needs to be understood is the reason no one seems to know good work from bad work is no one knows people in the trades. Growing up I knew a lot about what to look for in the construction trades because my father worked construction. He might not have been a mason but he knew bad work from good, etc. I go out on bids and see prior work that screams a client doesn't have a clue. They're not stupid, just not aware of the difference between good work and bad.

If you want to get the job done right find someone who does the work themselves and has customers that will verify their work over years.

 

[riptides]

If you want to get the job done right find someone who does the work themselves and has customers that will verify their work over years.

I have always believed in going to the experts, the specialist and not the generalist, I also verify and interview both prior customers and of course the contractor whom I am about to hire.

Then, this last go around, I learned that my vetting process just is not what I thought it was. Even after the many years of following my process, I found a contractor who just did not live up to my expectations and high standards.

I guess you can be selective, careful, nit-picky and what not, in the end, all you can do is your best, and hope plays into it.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

My wife's uncle was a pipeline welder. He was a perfectionist. When he had the last house built he chose a good contractor with good subs. But uncle almost went crazy because framers are not finish carpenters. Of course finish carpenters are not furniture makers either. Sometimes our expectations can be unreasonable.

I have always believed in going to the experts, the specialist and not the generalist, I also verify and interview both prior customers and of course the contractor whom I am about to hire.

Then, this last go around, I learned that my vetting process just is not what I thought it was. Even after the many years of following my process, I found a contractor who just did not live up to my expectations and high standards.

I guess you can be selective, careful, nit-picky and what not, in the end, all you can do is your best, and hope plays into it.

 

[dave1949]

i agree with you Dave.....why would he assume he will overpay. Contractors have to pay for workers comp., insurance, overtime,etc.

Not in Texas, all of the contractors I know that would be bidding on such a project don't pay overtime, insurances, etc. It's all done with contract labor or piecework. If the work is done outside of large city limits the only inspection required will be for electrical or septic.

It is a moot point now since the OP is going to do it himself, which I applaud in the sense that it is a project that can be an easy DIY, and if paying others to do something, it is better to pay for things you cannot do. It's like ordering fried eggs in a restaurant. I can fry an egg, but I don't know how to make Eggs Benedict and probably don't have the ingredients on-hand either.

 

[Botabill]

First... If I can make $30 an hour in my trade and pay a carpenter $20 an hour to build my structure.
Second... I may take 3 times as long to do the job that the carpenter would take. That means it is costing me $90 an hour.
Third... I may not know the best construction practices and may waste lumber and have structural weaknesses.
The other side of the coin though is I like to learn new skills. It can be entertaining sooo... I often do it myself for the sense of independance I feel on completion. Depends what you value.