Hiring Someone to Work on Property - Liability

[John_Mc]

Over here we have workers comp insurance that employers must pay. If your contractor lets his lapse and gets injured on your property then you become liable for his workers comp.

Same thing in the US.

 

[Diggin It]

Check with the school board.

A: It may not be legal.

B: It may be cause for your dismissal even it it might be legal.

C: They may have a program that would allow it AND cover any liability issues. Some sort of co-op or intern program.

 

[jmc]

This might be worth reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_compensation
When I was an employer, coverage was part of my commercial insurance package and rates were based on risks of your employee's job classification.

IIRC, we need to submit 1099/W-2 payroll information to employees and tax authorities if annual wages exceed some small amount- $600 for each employee back when I asked.

Could be that what time you save cutting weeds, you'll spend shuffling paper.

 

[two_bit_score]

If you want less liability hire a contractor with proof of insurance coverage. Even that doesn't make things trouble free.

Over here we have workers comp insurance that employers must pay. If your contractor lets his lapse and gets injured on your property then you become liable for his workers comp.

Lawyers, insurance companies and the government seems to be doing everything they can to kill jobs and small businesses.

Yep, and in the name of "protecting the workers" which is really no protection at all. Mostly just a way for the lawyers, insurance companies and the government to get paid.

 

[stingray1]

Damn,all this just to get some weeds cut? Get someone that’s at least 18 yrs old. Your homeowners policy should have you covered.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Damn,all this just to get some weeds cut? Get someone that’s at least 18 yrs old. Your homeowners policy should have you covered.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.... are not legal terms...

 

[RjCorazza]

This has been a depressing read for me
My first job was on a horse farm owned by my 6th grade teacher, shoveling stalls. I used lawn mowers, string trimmers, a Ford 9N and wagon, etc....
Now as an adult I never really considered how different things are today with insurance, lawyers, etc.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ As usual, SOME teachers abused their positions of trust and now there are a whole host of special rules and laws regarding student/teacher interactions that never should have been necessary.

 

[Fuddy1952]

As previously mentioned I'm also a big advocate of umbrella policies. I have same insurance company for home, buildings, cars, etc. An umbrella covers everything and amazingly cheap. I just paid ours, $109/yr extra.

 

[jmc]

If OP buys an umbrella policy, he should read it carefully to see the limitations of coverage, especially with regard to his employees. Knowing insurance companies, they have escape clauses a mile wide, maybe even including what constitutes a "qualified employee" . For example, last time I looked at mine, it specified separate liability coverage minimums on my auto policy before their umbrella coverage applied.

 

[California]

I presume this contractor just hired day labor out of the homeless shelter, sort of like hiring the guys hanging around Home Depot. I wasn't comfortable with that ...

I deliver a couple of trailerloads of apples from my orchard to the local food bank each year. (Pre Covid). A couple of years ago a staff member saw one of their clients helping to carry in bins.

She advised never let anyone but their staff help me. She said among their clientele there are people with untreated (for lack of money) disabilities who are looking for someone to be Mr Deep Pockets, who will fake an injury, and will sue for you to pay for the extensive medical treatment they need. Don't become Mr Deep Pockets!

Her phrase reminded me of two other examples: Big-city bus companies discover claims from more injured passengers than were actually on the bus, whenever they have a crash. And the State Highway Department is Mr Deep Pockets for a few unfortunate paralyzed motorcyclists, on the legal theory that the Department is responsible for putting that guardrail right where they were going to have their crash and the State is their last resort, there is no one else to pay for their lifetime hospitalization.

Don't become Mr Deep Pockets!

Real Workman's Comp plus an umbrella policy are necessities today. You need an insurance company's experienced attorneys to stand between you and an opponents opportunistic attorneys, if things ever go wrong.


And the other side of the picture: when I was in my 30's I got tired of Carpentering and went back to college for an MBA. A classmate told an appalling story: His family is the largest garage door installation contractor in the region. He said: "We hire what we call Expendable Mexicans. After a year or two they have a broken back from rasseling the heavy doors alone. They quit, return to Mexico, and never file a claim against us because they were all illegals". Don't be this guy.

 

[two_bit_score]

As previously mentioned I'm also a big advocate of umbrella policies. I have same insurance company for home, buildings, cars, etc. An umbrella covers everything and amazingly cheap. I just paid ours, $109/yr extra.

Yes, umbrella policies are reasonably inexpensive.

There can be some “holes” in them known as exclusions. And insurance companies are often quick to seek declaratory actions in court to deny coverage or to even deny a defense to their insured in questionable cases.

And be sure to watch your policy to be sure the policy limits doesn’t include the defense costs or that million $$ coverage limit may not be near what you think after the lawyers milk evert cent they can out of it on depositions and discovery and you have $50k policy limits left to settle a $500,000 claim against you. I’ve seen it happen.

It’s getting so bad with some companies you need to have a lawyer review the policy before you pay the premium.

 

[mikester]

Customer service for insurance companies means you are quick to take money and raise premiums. Then its lie and deny.

 

[Frankenkubota]

In NC we have a bizarre law that most residents are not aware of. I think 3-4 other states have it. I'm familiar because my buddy got stroked about 20 years ago and now some mom is fighting to get it changed. Her kid was killed walking down the road.

I don't remember the name of the law councilor but......it comes down to this........

example......You are sitting at a stop light...stopped, in the proper area, you got your seatbelt on, you paid your insurance, you did everything you are supposed to do and,....

you are partially responsible because.........ready...

Because you were there...simple as tha

I guess the logic is...if you were not there, it couldn't have happened. That's the truth. Don't ya just love a lawyer!

The lawyers from the insurance lobby bribed the cream of the crop lawyers from the government to get that one on the books. It's basically an out for insurance companies.

Bad news.

 

[nickfank]

We've had similar concerns about our helpers from the local college, and in addition, sell some of our produce at a local farmer's market & had some kids out here for a summer camp during the pandemic. We ended up getting a $1,000,000 umbrella policy for our place, and it was surprisingly inexpensive for something that covers a range of activities. This may be one of the few times you want to visit your insurance agent.

 

[jcman]

I am SLOWLY learning that if I am to keep my sanity I need to hire people to help me in life. My goal for the summer is to keep the weeds on my property at bay all summer long Last summer it was a mess, I was too busy with my shop build and the weeds got out of control. All fall I would walk around and end up with a hoodie full of burrs.

I am a school teacher and I plan on hiring one of my responsible enterprising students to weed eat at the property this summer. My question is about liability. I am assuming liability is lessened if you are paying that person to work at your property. Am I correct in this assumption? I do not think he is necessarily going to get hurt, just curious.

You should check with your county or state Labor and Industries department. It all varies by state and in Washington state if the employee earns more than $500 a year they have to be covered by L&I.

 

[Mudfarmer]

Back in the day in Washington State you could get a farm/home insurance policy that covered injuries to farm workers. No longer, they were discontinued in the early '90's. Now to cover casual labor you need to be running a licensed business and paying L and I premiums. Don't do it, stick to family for casual labor. And that doesn't even consider that you are required by law to pay payroll taxes unless you have a firm contractor arrangement. You might find a lawn and yard service who would contract to mow for you. They are expensive because they are paying all that stuff.

 

[Username Taken]

I am SLOWLY learning that if I am to keep my sanity I need to hire people to help me in life. My goal for the summer is to keep the weeds on my property at bay all summer long Last summer it was a mess, I was too busy with my shop build and the weeds got out of control. All fall I would walk around and end up with a hoodie full of burrs.

I am a school teacher and I plan on hiring one of my responsible enterprising students to weed eat at the property this summer. My question is about liability. I am assuming liability is lessened if you are paying that person to work at your property. Am I correct in this assumption? I do not think he is necessarily going to get hurt, just curious.

Most Homeowners Policies have a CPL (comprehensivepersonalliability) built into them. It will be in your Policy Jacket, not on your Dec Page so you may have to get one sent to you.

Read it. Pay special attention to what it DOESN'T cover. Then once you have a basic understanding of it, if you're still confused (likely) go sit down with your Agent.

I am not giving you advice, but if it were me, I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought. I'd go for it.

But that's me. Not you

 

[Username Taken]

In NC we have a bizarre law that most residents are not aware of. I think 3-4 other states have it. I'm familiar because my buddy got stroked about 20 years ago and now some mom is fighting to get it changed. Her kid was killed walking down the road.

I don't remember the name of the law councilor but......it comes down to this........

example......You are sitting at a stop light...stopped, in the proper area, you got your seatbelt on, you paid your insurance, you did everything you are supposed to do and,....

you are partially responsible because.........ready...

Because you were there...simple as tha

I guess the logic is...if you were not there, it couldn't have happened. That's the truth. Don't ya just love a lawyer!

The lawyers from the insurance lobby bribed the cream of the crop lawyers from the government to get that one on the books. It's basically an out for insurance companies.

Bad news.

Most States are 'Comparative Negligence' States.

That's just how the system works.

In the hypothetical you mentioned above, the stopped person would be considered 1% at fault. Which is totally, completely and absolutely meaningless.

It's hard to understand but it's a good system and it works. Remember when Michigan had a "Better Idea" and started messing with their Insurance? It was quite a while ago but the point is, they have the highest Auto Rates in the Country (by far) now.

And Comparative Negligence has been around since Hammurabi

 

[Username Taken]

Yes, umbrella policies are reasonably inexpensive.

There can be some “holes” in them known as exclusions. And insurance companies are often quick to seek declaratory actions in court to deny coverage or to even deny a defense to their insured in questionable cases.

And be sure to watch your policy to be sure the policy limits doesn’t include the defense costs or that million $$ coverage limit may not be near what you think after the lawyers milk evert cent they can out of it on depositions and discovery and you have $50k policy limits left to settle a $500,000 claim against you. I’ve seen it happen.

It’s getting so bad with some companies you need to have a lawyer review the policy before you pay the premium.

Umbrella Policies typically provide liability when the limits of your personal liability on your Homeowners or Auto policy have been reached.

Most now require underlying limits 250/500/100 on Auto and 300 CSL on your homeowners. They don't expand coverage past whatever your basic policy covers.