Tires HN TC33DA Correct Tire Size??

[drm]

I have a 04 TC33DA with the Titan Multi Trac C/S (turf) tires mounted. I also have the 14LA loader with quick attach 60" bucket and Markham tooth bar. The rear tires are filled with 50 gallon CaCl (Approx 550 lbs.) and use a 550# box blade as rear ballast.

BUT, the front tires really flex when I try to fully load the bucket. I would like to get a second set of rims and tires to use when doing heavy loader work. Since I use the TC to cut 2+ acres of grass with very soft soil I do not want to foam fill the front tires.

So, I am looking into acquiring a set of R4 industrial tires on their own rims. The OEM tire installed is the Titan Multi Trac C/S (Turf) in the 24x8.50-14 size. This has proven to be an excellent tire for my use. Firestone and Goodyear do not make a compatible size. Titan has a 25x8.50-14 6 ply (2000 lb. load limit) that has a 75" rolling circumference compared to the OEM of 72" (1230 lb. load limit). Titan also has a 23x8.50-14 4 ply (1490 lb. load limit) with a 71" rolling circumference but I am concerned that it will not have enough additional load capacity.

How close do I need to get in rolling circumference to not run into problems with the FWD?

Does anyone know of any other mfg. or sources? I have asked my dealer to look into it and the local tire place that does most of the local ag work but this is not a priority to them.

Thanks for any help...Derek

 

[dqdave1]

I assume you have turf tires now and only want to switch the front tires only to industrials or ags. Is that a true assumption.

 

[drm]

dqdave1,

Yes, I currently have the turf tires and only want to switch out the fronts to Industrial tires.

...Derek

 

[Dirtball]

try more pressure in the fronts. you can only put so much in that bucket or the tractor gets unstable.. i have a 1999 33d with turfs and loader... try 25psi cold

 

[RickB]

Based on experience with a 1720 and a 1920 with similar symptoms, I can tell you that the 6 ply Titans will probably cause scuffing and difficult shifting out of 4wd due to the exaggerated lead ratio the taller tire provides.

 

[drm]

Dirtball,

I am running 24 psi (Recommended max is 22 psi) and the flex still looks terrible. I am concerned with popping a bead and rolling the tractor due to a sudden shift in load or breaking down the sidewall quickly.

I think that the added weight of the quick attach bucket and tooth bar hurt my capacities. Therefore, I only use the tooth bar when required but I still have the additional weight of the plate. Nothing I can do about that. Do you have them also?

...Derek

 

[dqdave1]

Derek; I have a TC 29 which is same frame as yours and I have Titan turfs size 24 x 8.50 x 14 on front. I use a 68" bucket. I bought this new in 1999 and use the FEL almost all the time. Yes the front tires flex severely but I have never poped one off the bead. They make me nervous sometimes and I have bent the rim once but never lost a tire. I also have considered industrrials on front as turf tire sidewalls are not strong. I now have run 6 years with no problems except tire flexing which can make it hard to turn when stopped or going slow. I mean flexing tire under side of rim. I overinflate the fronts greatly ( 28 psi) . I also have installed a tube in one to see if it made a difference. Didn't see a difference. I do not think that overinflating the tires is a serious problem ( I am sure this will start a debate). My bucket is large for a TC 29 and may be equivalent to your situation. I will be curious to if you find a tire of same height to allow proper FWD operation. I would not change tire size very much. I do know that when my bucket is fully loaded front tires run near flat on bottom, which actually changes the diameter of tire but it is not constant. I am curious to why not foam fill the fronts/ Does it add alot of weight?

 

[drm]

RickB,

I was afraid of that with the 25x 6 ply. What do you think about using the 23x 4 ply. Although it is shorter overall has a slightly taller loaded radius and the lead ratio is slightly less.

OEM Turf:
Size: 24x8.50-14
Width: 8.5"
Dia.: 24.2"
Loaded Radius: 10.2"
Rolling Circ.: 72"
Max Load: 1230 lb.
Max Pressure: 22 psi

Titan Trac Loader
Size: 23x8.5-14
Width: 7.8"
Dia.: 23.8"
Loaded Radius: 10.7"
Rolling Circ.: 71"
Max Load: 1490 lb
Max Pressure: 32 psi

Difference
Dia.: -1.65 percent
Loaded Radius: +4.9 percent
Rolling Circ.: -1.39 percent
Max Load: +21 percent

The front end will sit 0.5” higher but will turn 1.39 percent slower than with the OEM Turfs both front & back. I am assuming that the Rolling Circumference is the critical item and came up with the following observations:

The ratio of the OEM Turf tires (rear to front):
Rolling Circumference: 113/72 = 1.569

And the ratio of the OEM Industrial tires:
Rolling Circumference: 117/75 = 1.560
The two tire types are within 0.58 percent

If I use the OEM Turf rear and 23x Industrial front:
Rolling Circumference: 113/71 = 1.592
This combination would be about 1.47 percent greater than the OEM Turfs. Is this critical? Will it cause damage to the drive train?

At this point I am not sure what I will do and am looking for any suggestions or other ideas.

Thanks…Derek

 

[drm]

dqdave1,

I am glad to hear that you have a similar situation and have not had any problems. The flexing you describe is that same as what I experience. I am a newbie still and with our property being hilly I want to reduce any potential problems that may turn catastrophic. I have some areas of the lawn I cut that I am nervous cutting with side slopes up to 18 degrees and up and down slopes well over that. I am like an old man in those areas: slow and steady.

I try to limit my loader work to flatter areas but I still have a lot to do over the next couple of years and hence my concern.

I am holding out on foam filling the fronts partially due to the added weight but also since my yard is very soft. I am not sure how the foam will affect the traction, rutting, or cutting during turning.

During the summer most of my seat time is cutting our 2-3 acres of manicured lawn with the loader off and the front tire pressure set down to 14 psi. My neighbors bug me that we are cultivating a golf course in the middle of fields of crops and weeds. But it really does looks nice and I do not have to worry about running around on a rutted or uneven lawn (my knees can't take it, they are on their last leg /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif), and most importantly: that is the way my wife likes it.

I need to get some opinions on the foam filled tires ability to hold the loader weight better and any possible negatives on grassy areas.

Sorry about the rambling. Thanks…Derek.

 

[dqdave1]

Derek; I also thought about a switch on the fronts but decided to wear them out first. I run high pressure all the time and I think they do less damage on lawns with high pressure. I have a woods backhoe on most of the time as I use it for light excuvation work which is mostly on customers lawns ( which is why I opted for turfs). I will be checking into foam filling the tires as an option as the tires do not seem to wear out. I just thought of this; skid steers use a 23 x 8.50 x 14 tire; do not know diameter; sure side walls are strong.

 

[RickB]

The 23x4 ply will not cause any operational problems, but will do little to solve your concerns, either. As you suspect, they will be marginally better than the turfs you now have. If you could find that size in 6 ply, you would be better off.

 

[drm]

RickB,

You are correct about the load rating. It is only 260 lbs higher than what I have. I spent some time today looking for a 6 ply tire with a 72 Rolling Circumference. I found a turf tire from Firestone in a 25x8.50-14:

Firestone “Turf and Field – G2”
Size: 25x8.5-14, 6 ply
Width: 8.4"
Dia.: 25.0"
Loaded Radius: 10.8"
Rolling Circ.: 72"
Max Load: 1640 lb
Max Pressure: 32 psi

Difference from OEM
Dia.: +0.8”, 3.3 percent
Loaded Radius: +0.6”, 5.9 percent
Rolling Circ.: SAME
Max Load: +410 lb., 33 percent

The front end will sit 0.6” higher but will turn the same as with the OEM Turfs both front & back. I am not sure how this can be so I plan on stopping by the local ag tire service center to get their opinion.

Thanks…Derek

 

[drm]

dqdave1,

I spent a few hours reading threads I found searching for foam filled tires. It seems that a few people do not like the ride because it is too stiff but it also appears that there are different foam harnesses. The weight would help during brush cutting but I am not sure if it will affect the traction.

When I stop to discuss the Firestone Turf I discovered (listed in above post) I will talk to the Ag tire guys since they also do foam filling. It may be what I need. I just can't afford to give up any traction on my sloped areas I cut and I think the lower tire pressure helps. I might try a higher pressure depending on how brave I feel. I pucker /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif every time I have to cut that side. It only takes about 20-30 min. but they are very long minutes.

I'll post after I stop there. Keep any comments & suggestions coming.

Thanks...Derek

 

[dqdave1]

Derick; you might want to review the flatfix on this web sight

http://www.kenjones.com/index.asp?pgid=19

 

[drm]

Thanks for the link. I looked up the Arnco Co. site and they provide some good information.

...Derek

 

[drm]

Update,

I heard back from the two dealers I spoke with and here are their replies:

Dealer 1. Said he could not find an appropriate substitute industrial tire in the 24x8.50-14 size so do not use any tire other than what came with the tractor. When I questioned what the critical dimension was he did not know.

Dealer 2. Said to use the Titan Trac Loader 25x8.50-14, 6 ply. Since this is the OEM Industrial tire they use there should not be any interference problems and it only has a slight increase in Rolling Circumference (75 inches vs. 72). He also cautioned to take it easy and not use FWD on asphalt.

This is a 4 percent increase in the front to rear turning ratio. Is this amount a concern? I still need to visit the local ag tire dealer. Maybe tomorrow.

According to the information contained in the Arnco web site foam filling will not increase the load capacity of the OEM turf tire and therefore should not have much if any effect on the amount of flex I experience.

...Derek

 

[dqdave1]

You have to trust the engineers at CNH. It only is reasonable that the tire diameter must remain constant to allow the FWD to operatte correctly. When rear and front wheels are connected they must turn at the same speed. Engineers at CNH would never mis match wheel specs do to the complications to the drivetrain. If the front wheels are 72" then the replacements should be 72". I would never replace with anything than 72". Even a small amount of diference will put undo stress on the drivetrain. Is this worth it. I am also shocked that no other tire company makes a 6 ply tire in this size especially Titan do to the many turf tired compacts that are being sold. Maybe a leeter to Titan is needed.

 

[LRH]

If you use the 23x8.5-14 Titans take into consideration the higher allowable pressure (32psi) (current Titan site shows 35psi) will be much less likely to roll a bead off due to the higher pressure as well as MUCH stiffer sidewalls although will still be loaded to close to max with a bucket full. There is about 4% or so leeway in RC. The front tires cover more ground to help pull tractor straight so they are always in a bind when moving in 4WD and slippage is what prevents damage. The 25x8.5-14's may fall in the allowable range or be borderline. For more info on lead/lag percentages and so forth see the Kubota owning section and read all the info on "L-Series lead/lag"; should be near the top.

 

[drm]

dqdave1,

You are correct about maintaining the tire sizes/rolling circumference ratio within the allowable range. But, there is some allowance. After some additional research (based on LRH’s post above) I now know the information I need and the questions I need to ask. I will be starting a new thread to try to determine the actual Final Drive Ratio and Allowable Lead for the TC33DA. This will enable me to determine what tire combinations are acceptable.

Base on the preliminary information from Tractor Smart the 23x8.50-14 Titans may not be within the acceptable lead percent and I am concerned since the load capacity is only marginally better. I would really like to find a 6 ply industrial tire but will need to gather a little more information before making a decision.

...Derek

 

[drm]

LRH,

Thanks for the reference to the Lead/Lag discussion. I did not know what questions to ask or information I needed when I started this thread. The information contained in that thread and referenced threads has greatly cleared it up. A link to the Tractor Smart site (referenced in my above post) sums up the issue very well. Based on an assumption of 1.50 for the Final Drive Ratio for the TC33DA neither industrial tire would be within the acceptable range. Need to get that from NH.

Thanks...Derek