Holly F...ng Branson!!!!!!!

[2515R Dude]

Ok, three days later and thanks to HF $100 welder, el cheapo Chinese made and amazon bought plasma cutter, 1/4" metal, my crappy fabrication skills, my crappy welding abilities and welds which look more like birds $hit, the tractor is back to normal. Now if we have a nuclear attack, everything will be distorted, but this boom will stay intact.

 

[Bearsixty7]

I'm a design engineer, have been for 30+ years. So maybe I'm quicker than most to blame the engineer when I see a failure, since I see so much bad design in my line of work, that could have easily prevented many problems if handled better.

Speaking of loaders, short of corrosion or build issues, the goal of the design engineer should be a loader that can never be broken by the operator. Most loaders these days are designed for a specific tractor model, and so unlike the old days, the engineer knows the exact capacities and pressures involved. Simply don't specify a loader arm cross section that can ever fail within the breakout force limits of the hydraulics.

This isn't exactly rocket science, but it does require either a combination of very expensive FEA software and an engineer who's actually capable of using it properly, or a lot of testing and design iteration. Both of these represent large expenses to a smaller manufacturer, and may be only within the budget of some of the more premium brands. I see this everyday in my line of work, and in fact a large part of my business is offering such design services to manufacturers who cannot afford to support the cost of such software and staff capable of using it.

Yes, there will always be people who abuse their equipment. But given the huge brand image penalties of broken equipment showing up on internet forums, I'd be doing my damnedest to design something like a loader such that it can never fail under the loads to which it can be subjected on the machine for which it was designed.

Design is one part of it, but then you have budget manager('s) and purchasing dept. involved downstream.
Budget dept. requests less expensive steel, purchasing department finds it cheaper but doesn't realize why the cost is reduced, i.e. thinner gauge/wall steel, lower grade steel, all things that they know nothing about but they were only to get it cheaper!
In each of their minds, they each succeeded.

 

[tradosaurus]

I'm a design engineer, have been for 30+ years. So maybe I'm quicker than most to blame the engineer when I see a failure, since I see so much bad design in my line of work, that could have easily prevented many problems if handled better.

Speaking of loaders, short of corrosion or build issues, the goal of the design engineer should be a loader that can never be broken by the operator. Most loaders these days are designed for a specific tractor model, and so unlike the old days, the engineer knows the exact capacities and pressures involved. Simply don't specify a loader arm cross section that can ever fail within the breakout force limits of the hydraulics.

This isn't exactly rocket science, but it does require either a combination of very expensive FEA software and an engineer who's actually capable of using it properly, or a lot of testing and design iteration. Both of these represent large expenses to a smaller manufacturer, and may be only within the budget of some of the more premium brands. I see this everyday in my line of work, and in fact a large part of my business is offering such design services to manufacturers who cannot afford to support the cost of such software and staff capable of using it.

Yes, there will always be people who abuse their equipment. But given the huge brand image penalties of broken equipment showing up on internet forums, I'd be doing my damnedest to design something like a loader such that it can never fail under the loads to which it can be subjected on the machine for which it was designed.

Or do like Kubota and lower the hydraulic pressure by 200psi to minimize failures from operators using tractors like a bulldozer.

 

[Fixastuff]

Ok, three days later and thanks to HF $100 welder, el cheapo Chinese made and amazon bought plasma cutter, 1/4" metal, my crappy fabrication skills, my crappy welding abilities and welds which look more like birds $hit, the tractor is back to normal. Now if we have a nuclear attack, everything will be distorted, but this boom will stay intact.



View attachment 3417804View attachment 3417805View attachment 3417806

Nice, now just back into that same stump to see if it holds.

 

[WinterDeere]

Design is one part of it, but then you have budget manager('s) and purchasing dept. involved downstream.
Budget dept. requests less expensive steel, purchasing department finds it cheaper but doesn't realize why the cost is reduced, i.e. thinner gauge/wall steel, lower grade steel, all things that they know nothing about but they were only to get it cheaper!
In each of their minds, they each succeeded.

You’re right, that always happens. But this is still the fault of Engineering, as they should have specified the requirements for the steel in such a way that the purchasing department was not allowed the freedom to switch it to an inferior alloy.

This is one of the biggest differences between an experienced engineer and an otherwise very smart but inexperienced one right out of school. The experienced engineer has been down this road with purchasing many times, and learns to specify materials and components in a way that prevents substitutions that may cause failures.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

This is horrible to hear... Based on my experience with my dealer and my 4820... I'd recommend them to any of my friends without hesitation. I've always seen such positive remarks regarding the 2515

 

[K5lwq]

This is horrible to hear... Based on my experience with my dealer and my 4820... I'd recommend them to any of my friends without hesitation. I've always seen such positive remarks regarding the 2515

The 15 series is a great little tractor. I certainly would recommend one based on my experience. But it is a small tractor that can be over stressed like any other brand of this size. If the mission of the tractor is heavy duty work, then heavy duty equipment would be the better choice.

 

[BX23S-1]

Obviously this tractor is not meant for heavy (abuseful) work. I would fix the tractor up and get rid of it.
Then buy something next time that will do the work you intended it to do.

 

[WinterDeere]

Obviously this tractor is not meant for heavy (abuseful) work.

I have trouble understanding the concept of any tractor that can break itself. When designed by the OEM as a pairing, the loader and other components should be built to withstand the forces to which that tractor, little or otherwise, can exert upon it.

If the tractor can lift it, the loader should handle it. Conversely, if the loader cannot, the tractor manufacturer should set the bypass pressures accordingly. This is pretty basic stuff.

How many times have people on this forum repeated the old mantra that a small tractor can do all the work of a larger one, only slower? You may be contradicting your own prior posts, with this most recent claim, that the machine is bound to break if subjected to real work.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I have trouble understanding the concept of any tractor that can break itself. When designed by the OEM as a pairing, the loader and other components should be built to withstand the forces to which that tractor, little or otherwise, can exert upon it.

Your right they should, but MY experience has been they aren't! Especially compact tractors.

That's why I buy "farm" tractors do do any heavier work that I need done!

Farm tractors take it MUCH better and for much longer.

SR