Home AC Welder Breaker ???

LD1 · Nov 28, 2012

k0ua said:
Well it sorta depends...Now you are going to say I am crazy and just splitting semantic hairs, and you would be correct. BUT just for the heck of it, lets do some math. Math is good, right?

"snip"

James K0UA

I just pulled up one of them fancy v-drop calculators online. Plugged in 240v single phase circuit, 50A, and 50 miles. Came up with something like -800v.

So I just kept decreasing the distance til the voltage as to the plus side again. That was at about 1 mile:thumbsup:

sdkubota · Nov 28, 2012

joshuabardwell said:
I found some 6/2 wire (indoor-rated, but let's not worry about that, shall we?) for $203 for 125 feet, or $1.624 / foot. So that 50 miles of wire will only cost you $428,736. A bargain!

Most modern circuits will require a 6/3 w/ grnd which includes a neutral conductor. I think I just paid around $2.50 /ft at Home Depot.

k0ua · Nov 28, 2012

LD1 said:
I just pulled up one of them fancy v-drop calculators online. Plugged in 240v single phase circuit, 50A, and 50 miles. Came up with something like -800v.

So I just kept decreasing the distance til the voltage as to the plus side again. That was at about 1 mile:thumbsup:

Sure if you try to pull any really useful current thru it, the drop would be horrendous. But it only takes between .050 and .100 amps ( 50 to 100 milliamps) to kill you, so at 50 miles you could deliver that much current , it was just a fun exercise., and to make people understand that the voltage would still be there no matter the distance of the wire, but the current would be severely limited by the resistance of the wire. In the telephony industry we deliver 48 volt DC thru 24 guage wire for miles, but the currents are pretty minimal. Maybe 18 to 25 milliamps of loop current.

James K0UA

LD1 · Nov 28, 2012

sdkubota said:
Most modern circuits will require a 6/3 w/ grnd which includes a neutral conductor. I think I just paid around $2.50 /ft at Home Depot.

Welders can get by with 6/2

The 6/3 (or whatever/3) wire is for the 240v things that also have 120v controls. Things like a oven or dryer.

sdkubota · Nov 28, 2012

LD1 said:
Welders can get by with 6/2

The 6/3 (or whatever/3) wire is for the 240v things that also have 120v controls. Things like a oven or dryer.

Hey, that makes sense...thanks for the explanation. Now I am confused about the return line (neutral) or absence of it to the power generation facility.

LD1 · Nov 28, 2012

You dont need a neutral to have 240v. Just the two hots.

Same as you dont need both hots for 120v.

You ONLY need TWO power wires and ONE ground for either 120v (Hot, Neutral, Ground) and 240v (hot, hot, ground). Thats it.

The need for the THIRD insulated conductor IE: 6/3, 10/3, etc is for 240v circuits that ALSO feed 120v circuits off of it. Like a Oven. The elements are 240v, but the controls are 120. So the added neutral is needed according to modern code. In the past, the ground was allowed to serve as the neutral for the 120v.

The other common use for the x/3 wire is for 3/way switches. Cause you need 3 insulated conducters between the switches.

Disclaimer: I am not a certified electrician. I know just enough to be dangerous:laughing: But this is my understanding of it.

joshuabardwell · Nov 28, 2012

sdkubota said:
Most modern circuits will require a 6/3 w/ grnd which includes a neutral conductor. I think I just paid around $2.50 /ft at Home Depot.

I used 6/2 because I was treating it as a welder extension cord. But, hey, when you're using Romex to go 50 miles, why stress about that extra neutral conductor?

k0ua · Nov 28, 2012

joshuabardwell said:
I used 6/2 because I was treating it as a welder extension cord. But, hey, when you're using Romex to go 50 miles, why stress about that extra neutral conductor?

How in the heck did this 50 mile extension cord thing get started anyway

..

joshuabardwell · Nov 28, 2012

k0ua said:
How in the heck did this 50 mile extension cord thing get started anyway..

A joke. Read back in the thread.

BIG DOOLEY · Nov 28, 2012

Understand Duty Cycle

One way of classifying a welder's "size" is by how much amperage it can generate at a given "duty cycle." Duty cycle is the number of minutes out of a 10-minute period a welder can operate. For example, the Dynasty 350 TIG unit can deliver 300 amps of welding output at a 60 percent duty cycle. It can weld continuously at 300 amps for six minutes, and then must cool down during the remaining four minutes to prevent overheating.

When considering duty cycle for a Stick machine, note that most Stick electrodes are consumed in less than two minutes. Further about 80% of all Stick welding is done with a 1/8-inch diameter electrode, which takes about one minute to consume.

light Industrial products typically have a 20% duty cycle and a rated output of 230 amps or lower.
industrial products typically have a 40-60% duty cycle and a rated output of 300 amps or lower.
heavy Industrial products typically have a 60-100% duty cycle and a rated output of at least 300 amps.