Home Deck--Wood or Composite decking

[RonR]

To be flush with the patio door, the deck top is 16" above grade. So I won't be screwing fasteners up from the bottom. And I'd rather not put pavers up that high. I think my option is a close to ground deck.........

Thks.
Ron

 

[Joe1]

Ron:

I have two decks around my home in California, about 300 SQ FT in Front and 700 SQ FT in back made out of recycled plastic and wood fibers. These decks are covered, but rain can blow in. Timber Tech and Treks make the same type of decks. Good air circulation is CRITICAL. My decks were the Tongue and Groove type with weep holes every 12 inches. Water drains through it immediately.

My decks are built about 30 inches above ground and has a concrete stem wall completely around them. The brochures indicate at least something like 27 inches above ground. They did not specify how much ventilation was enough. Since I get little water on my deck, I was under the impression that I had adquate ventilation. I was totally wrong. This product has FAILED. My contractor is in the process of working with the manufacturer to see about replacing the material and covering the labor. I have joists 24" on center, and there are only two styles of this material that will span that. The span is not the issue, but my deck material curled and cupped from side to side. and pulled itself through the screwheads holding parts of it down. The top gets wet, the btoom gets wet, and there is greater surface area underneath. The top and bottom expand, the top dries first and the bottom which is expanded and wet tries to curl itself into a trough. It also does stain from iron in the water and other stuff as suggested above.

I highly recommend that prior to spending the money for this material, that you are completely satisfied that you have adequate ventilation so the decking material can dry completely and evenly.


If I replace with the same type material, I will utilize a different style that is evenly shaped top and bottom, and will not use Tongue and Grove material, but that similar in shape to 2 X 6 lumber. I will also ensure that there is at least a 16 or 20 P nail space side to side and end to end. I will also have to screw through the top. My current deck shows no screws but is so badly warped it is really tough to work on.

Unlike real wood, I can't sand the "high spots", because it would destroy the design of the wood and it covers a very large area.

It looks like a durable product weatherwise if it dries, but it is more fragile than wood. There should be little waste because there are no split or badly warped boards to contend with.

My deck started failing in less than a year.

Good Luck

Joe

 

[neilly2]

Joe1,

What material did you use that failed? The Trex, Timbertech, or something else.

I read as much as I could on the Trex before I installed it, and did not notice anything about ventilation.

Ron,
Its not screwed up from the bottom, but is screwed down through the tongue for concealment.

 

[tracdoc]

Ron,

Another voice here to suggest your consideration of pavers. As I noted in another thread on TBN, we did a project with Pavestone Anchor Diamond Block for a retaining wall, and a "tumbled" paver patio behind it. When we sold the house last year, we found to our pleasant surprise that the project addded more value to the house than what we had sunk into it. (How often does that happen? Our neighbors selling homes with elaborate pools, never got their money out).

Pavestone is nationwide. They sell some of their line through H-D, but we bought direct at a better price, since there was a production facility near where we lived in Phoenix. They also offered "tumbling" in which the concrete pavers are literally tumbled in a huge drum. This rounds off the edges, and creates minor chips, that give the final patio a beautiful patina or Old World look. As neophytes, we followed the detailed layout instructions that Pavestone provides, and we were very happy with our end result. The perimeter border or soldier row basically locks in all the inside pavers, and as long as you prepare the base properly, there will be no loose stones, no wobbles, etc. You can lay the pavers in a myriad of patterns. We were partial to the so-called Muster-K pattern, using 3 different sizes of pavers to achieve the effect. A herringbone pattern also produces a rich looking surface. If someone breaks a stone, or if someone spills paint on it and can't clean it, you simply pull out the damaged pavers and replace with some leftover ones that you hopefully squirreled away in your garage when you finished the project.

Pavestone is found at: PAVESTONE

A number of other companies manufacture excellent concrete pavers as well. You might also look at Belgard: BELGARD

IMHO, pavers add solid permanent beauty and value when you are at grade level, and when you turn around to sell your place, no one will quip "Oh that deck needs to be refinished, and I don't like the maintenance" or "I don't like plastic composite decks"

 

[wroughtn_harv]

It looks like you had some fun with the removal of the patio.

I think I would have taken a different plan of attack. A flagstone covering over the existing patio would have been easier, cheaper, and from some perspectives, more attractive.

My deck is over ten years old and still looks good. I started off with stealing about five thousand square foot of used redwood decking. I surfaced it, fluted because I'd never seen a fluted deck before.

We haven't kept up the sealing like we should have but the redwood is such a good wood it still looks good and is solid.

The composites are nice. I wouldn't go treated on a bet. But I do recommend giving redwood a good look. And if you can afford it, the stuff from Brazil, there's a thread on it here somewhere, is the best. It's a south American form of teak.

However you go keep in mind the work you do underneath is where you don't take shortcuts. It would be a shame to see all that material and labor go south because you skimped on the framework.

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> The new stuff is also identifed by 3 initials, but I can't remember the new term now. </font>
The initials for the new PT lumber is ACQ and you have to use stainless steel fasteners with it. Any other material corrodes away after 2 or 3 years. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<font color="blue">w-h: It's a south American form of teak. </font>
I think you're referring to IPE

 

[Fireman_dcb]

Ron,

We (not I, the builders) put on a 33 foot wide by 15 foot deep deck with Epoch decking material (light tan color) over a 2"x12" treated wood frame (Epoch didn't make structural grade material). Best decision I made! Haven't touched it in 2 years except to hose it off, no splinters and while it does get very warm on summer days it doesn't get blistering hot and it does face the west so it gets sun from 11:00 on. The boards have a wood texture/ grain so it looks like wood. The cost was roughly twice what the real thing would have cost, but the maintenance costs and time involved is what drove me to choose the Epoch. If the joists are off kilter you will see some dips and rises in the material and the builder (or you) will have to use something as a spacer as you attach the decking - its not real rigid... kind of wanders until its screwed to the frame. I did have the builder add 12" wide facade made of the same material which has bubbled in two places (over a 33' run) but that was easily rsolved by a little cutting to make room for expansion. This warping has not occurred with the decking material. Steps are made of the Epoch and have held up very well. Just a note about the durability... we have 2 dogs that run about 95 pounds and the little one that weighs in at around 55 pounds - and with all their running over, under, jumping around, pawing at and skidding around on the deck there is NO visible marks. Except from where one of the three did a taste test - chewed a 1/2" off the corner of one of the steps.

Good luck!

 

[Joe1]

Neilly2

I didn't mention the manufacturer because I think they will make it good and I didn't want to bad mouth them.

The product I used was TimberTech. I don't think the manufacturer makes a lot of difference because those products are all made with plastic and WOOD CELLUOSE. The wood holds the moisture and expands. I believe that ventilation under any of this type material would be critical. I've sen second story decks made out of the stuff I have, from the same manufacturer, and it seems to be OK. It is still a fairly new product and the manufacturers have a lot invested, so I'm pretty sure they sure they will stand by it. Time will tell.

 

[slowrev]

The last pressure treated stuff (CCA) I bought I had to sign a paper saying it was for agricultural use. That was about 5 weeks ago.

Interesting though that no ill effects have been linked to the use pt CCA treated wood and it has been in use for a long time. Don't get me wrong it is MUCH better to be safe than sorry, especially wher ones children involved.

 

[bandit67]

I've seen treated deck boards warp and splinter back on the east coast. Now you've got the new treatment (ACQ), and another one, that are safer than the arsenic, but still are questionable around pets and children.

I built a 38'x18' Trex deck a little over 3 years ago, and although it was a lot of work to build the frame (joists 12" OC to prevent sagging), I enjoy watching the neighbors clearing their decks off and staining them every year, while I relax on my maintenance free deck. In addition, the deck screws are not visible - you screw them in, then go back and hit all the "ant hills" with a hammer, and have nothing more than a very small hole visible when you're done. I'd recommend going with the 2x stock, as it sags less than the 5/4 stock.

You just need to weigh all your options. The composites are more expensive, but will never splinter, and never need to be stained. And, if you ever have to shovel snow off the deck, you can shovel across the board joints, and not catch the edge of the shovel or rip off chunks of decking, as the edges of the composites are slightly rounded.