Comparison Home Stand By Generators

[MossRoad]

And if "the offending" generator DOES back feed the utility's transformer and energizes the line laying in your neighbor's yard BEFORE the crew gets there to dead short the line, your neighbor's kids are dead.

Live with that.

Your statement is 100% correct.

Your neighbors' kids shouldn't be touching downed power lines regardless of if they are live, dead, unknown, etc... but kids will be kids, and, adults will be human. They make mistakes either by omission of steps in a procedure, safety precautions, or just plain ignorance (not knowing any better). I've seen several instances here locally of adults being electrocuted touching live wires. Several were by accident (ladders, TV towers, etc...) and several were intentionally picked up thinking they were dead or thinking they could move them. Sad all the way around.

 

[ultrarunner]

And if "the offending" generator DOES back feed the utility's transformer and energizes the line laying in your neighbor's yard BEFORE the crew gets there to dead short the line, your neighbor's kids are dead.

Live with that.

Your the first to reference neighbors... all prior posts were about utility workers.

 

[MossRoad]

This is what I was told my retired with 40 years lineman neighbor...

He said we NEVER assume any line is dead and we Dead Short to protect ourselves.

Many years ago I was working with an electrician on some metal boxes in our plant. I was sure I got bit when I touched the cabinet with my hand and my elbow was touching some angle iron mounting brackets. I felt the tingling. He laughed at me and told me to get back to work. I refused. He got mad, got me off the ladder, got up there and promptly got blasted off the ladder. I'd laugh hard if it wasn't so serious. We put a meter on it and the cabinet had voltage on it! Get between that and a good ground and, well, hope your insurance is paid up. Why didn't he believe me and check it when I said I felt something? Because he was sure I was mistaken. He didn't think it was possible, so he skipped investigation.

The point is, even professionals can have a lapse of concentration, or a lapse of good judgement. Even if you give someone a checklist to follow, with little check boxes to check, they'll skip steps, or do them in the wrong order. I have some photo processing machinery that has some very complicated cleaning procedures. I have an extremely long multi-page checklist that I developed over the years. We have 3 people that now do the cleaning. I give them the checklist. Probably 1 out of every 4 times they do the procedure, they skip a step even though they check it off. Crazy.

The goal is to make things as safe as possible. Something like shutting off the main power and all the breakers, plugging in a generator, starting up a generator, then turning on the breakers you want to power seems so simple to most of us. Yet, there's some of us that, say, after a long night of cleaning up storm damage, might have a brain freeze and do things in the wrong order.

A simple lockout device or extension cords are cheap, inexpensive ways to protect against that.

 

[buickanddeere]

Two possibles that likely would occur if anyone with a small generator ACCIDENTLY flipped on the main with the generator running while connected to the main panel in their home. The generator would most likely stall because it could not energize the distribution transformer. Another, if the generator could energize the transformer, the line crew dead short the lines from both directions prior to working on the damaged portion, again that would stall the offending generator.

Thus it's just fine to not use a break before make transfer switch? How about the vehicle in the ditch with power lines laying on it. Did the vehicle occupants short the lines for safety? After ice storms and wind storms with the lines down in people's yards.
Or is it a matter of pride? You don't want people telling you what should be done?

 

[K man]

After 224 post I think everyone gets the picture of safety when operating a generator etc etc etc. The original poster warriordba has probably gotten sick of hearing the same things over and over again and decided to step back. This subject is kind of getting boring if you know what I mean lol.
I still say a auto-switch propane standby generator is the best option out there for those who are old, handicapped or too out of shape to be running around with gasoline or diesel cans and extension cords especially during the winter. No offence but let's end this thread. Just saying

 

[hr3]

Thus it's just fine to not use a break before make transfer switch? How about the vehicle in the ditch with power lines laying on it. Did the vehicle occupants short the lines for safety? After ice storms and wind storms with the lines down in people's yards.
Or is it a matter of pride? You don't want people telling you what should be done?

With little load on the house side it is very easy to energize a transformer.. So don't believe it can't be done,,

 

[DarkBlack]

I've been back feeding my house with a double ended cord for longer than some of you are alive. And I even refueled every time during the outage a week ago while the generator was running (snow covered plastic tank). I guess I know what I'm doing, as I've never caused a fire or electrocuted someone. I don't "recommend it". Of course some here think I'm reckless.
The most potentially dangerous thing we do to others lives, is get in an auto and hop on a road, but I guess that's another story....

 

[DarkBlack]

The biggest generator safety issue is carbon monoxide. A couple of posters here keep trying to hype the back feed danger, which is wrong.
A woman just died in my small state this past week from CO. It's a real danger. Don't do it. DON'T run them in your garage or any wind restricted area next to your house!

 

[daybreak1998]

Howdy,
There are just some rules that all need to play by.
We drive on the right side of the road, we stop at stop signs, if we don't KAOS ensures. Sure, you can do a lot of things... you can drive on the left, you can blow by stops sings, run red lights etc.. it does not make it right.

Disconnects = for your safety, your families safety, and your neighbor helping out. Plus for anyone around you. Whether its a mechanical interlock, a lock, a manual transfer switch, or a automatic switch. Some do not need any transfer switch. why? because they only run a cord or 2 inside to power things and do not need access to other things powered.
generator-transfer-switch-choices

The electric companies would permanently disconnect you for your hazards. The Insurance companies would drop you due to liability. Your government (city, town, county whatever) inspectors would notify electric companies, and shut you off and fine you.

Generators = nice to have. Need to use common sense about operating it. Common sense says you should shut the engine off for refueling--- why? because of liability for the gasoline vapors and the hot exhaust.

The subject here is about whole home standby generators. Obviously they will be installed properly, with permits (depends where you live etc..) by someone that knows what there doing. A whole home generator will most likely have a automatic transfer switch. why? because most of the time they are included in the package. The choice of fuel will depend on access. If you have natural gas piped to your door, you are remote and have propane gas (is it large enough to last and if it gets long, can a supply company make it to you. Diesel, can be used in remote locations, you can re-fuel with cans, truck transfer tanks, or fueling service. Longevity of fuel needs to be watched. Diesel does not go bad like gasoline, but it also has its demons (algae, water) Gasoline, really has gotten hard to keep good with the 10% ethanol. Some areas still have access to 100% gasoline. Either way, gasoline has a limited shelf life, even with fuel stabilizers. Can be dangerous due to storage conditions, is volatile. In emergencies, stations can run out.

 

[buickanddeere]

The biggest generator safety issue is carbon monoxide. A couple of posters here keep trying to hype the back feed danger, which is wrong.
A woman just died in my small state this past week from CO. It's a real danger. Don't do it. DON'T run them in your garage or any wind restricted area next to your house!

So you are smarter than the engineers at the NEC and the utility code inspectors?