homemade gooseneck conversion

bdog · Apr 14, 2005

I have a very stout carhauler tongue pull trailer that I use to haul my tractor. It has a 5" channel frame, good axles, etc but it has too much tongue weight and my tractor is sitting in the only place it can due to the loader and implements. I went and had it weighed today and I have 1500lb tongue weight so I am going to convert it to a gooseneck. The weight on the axles is 1300lbs under their rating so the conversion should fix the problem.

I have been welding for 15 years and have built many trailers and bumpers, receiver hitches,etc so I am totally confident in my welding skills on this but I have never built a gooseneck hitch so I am looking for any suggestions. I am planning on using 6" channel and more or less copying the design from my livestock trailer. I guess I was wondering if there are any design features that you really like or hate on gooseneck trailers so I can build accordingly

Darren · Apr 14, 2005

I'm curious how the tongue weight was figured. Did you have the trailer loaded and setup the trailer to weigh only the tongue? The reason I'm asking is that a equalizing hitch can redistribute the load so that more weight is on the front wheels of the tow vehicle and there's much less tongue load on the hitch itself. While some folks add helper springs to help, an equalizer hitch can work for trailering and keep the vehicle suspension stock so the ride quality is still there when you're not towing a trailer.

bdog · Apr 15, 2005

I weighed the trailer at the truck stop. I put the tires on one platform, and unhooked and rested the tongue on blocks on another platform. The tires weighed 5880, the tongue 1760. I have two 3500lb axles so I am ok on the axles but a lot over on the hitch which is 7500/750 tongue weight. Also I am slightly over the 7500 gross trailer at 7640. I just don't see an easy fix other than going gooseneck.

Av8r3400 · Apr 15, 2005

If your trailer is a 7000 GVW vehicle (2 3500# axles), at the weights you described, it is overloaded and illeagal.

IMHO: I think it is time you traded it in of a larger/heavier goose-neck unit.

aardvark · Apr 15, 2005

Another thing to take into account, is that any weight you remove from the tongue is going to be shifted back to the axles. Taking 1000 lbs off the tongue (if this is your plan) will just shift that 1000 lbs back to the axles. You may want to check with your insurance company before you do this, because the liability of modifying your trailer which is already DOT legal may cause problems if you are ever in an accident. This is compounded if the trailer was overweight to begin with. It would make an easy target for a sue happy lawyer, that's the only reason I'm bringing it up.

Darren · Apr 15, 2005

As the last poster mentioned, you still have a problem with being overweight. Now you're planning on adding more metal to the trailer to make it a gooseneck. I expect when you get done you're going to easily be over 8,000lb gross. If the manufacturer's plate says 7,500 GVW, your problem got worse. Even if you upgrade the axles, you are still stuck with the load rating on the mfgr's plate and that's what the cops are going to look at if they inspect you.

bdog · Apr 15, 2005

Av8r2230,

I know it is currently overweight and that is why I want to convert it to a gooseneck.

Aardvark, I am not going to take weight away from the tongue, I am going to convert it from a tag along trailer to a gooseneck. The tongue weight should increase slightly due to the extra steel but I am not shifting the load more to the rear or anything like that. Just changing from a tag hitch that is rated at 7500 gross/750 tongue to a gooseneck that is rated at 30k gross / 5k tongue.

Darren,

I already thought about this. I called the Texas Dept of motor vehicles and they said once I do the modifications I need to take a picture, have the trailer weighed, and then bring in my title and surrender it for a new one that can have new weights that are approriate to my liking.

Basically I am going to figure 7k on the axles plus a minimum of 25% tongue weight for a new gross weight rating of 9000lb.

I went by and talked to some guys that custom build a lot of trailers. Around 25 a month. They are actually the ones that gave me the idea. They looked at my trailer and said the frame is plenty stout for a gross weight of 14k. They were going to convert it to a gooseneck add two 7k axles and relabel it a 14k.

I like this idea but 2 7k axles with brakes and then the new 16" tires and wheels will set me back over a grand and my axles are not overweight anyway so I am thinking just go to gooseneck and problem solved.

Thanks again for all the advice. I am pretty much sure this is waht I want to do, I am just unsure of of exactly how I am going to design it.

Av8r3400 · Apr 15, 2005

( ...and my axles are not overweight anyway so I am thinking just go to gooseneck and problem solved...)

Your axles are overweight already. You said the trailer is weighing in at 7600lbs +. That is 600+ over. Add the additional steel for the goose neck and you will be further over. Changing the center of gravity and putting more of the gross on the tongue (goose neck) does not change this.

Will it work? Probably. Will it be insurable and legal? ???

dliston · Apr 15, 2005

I think what everyone's trying to say is that it doesn't matter if you have part of the trailer's weight distributed to the tongue or gooseneck. The maximum the trailer can weigh with 2 3500# axles is 7000 pounds - no matter if it is distributed better or not.

If you start adding steel to the beast by goosenecking it without changing out the axles, you are compounding the problem - lowering your carrying capacity on the trailer to stay legal. If you re-tag it with a higher rated value, that doesn't change the fact that the axles are not adequate to carry the newly rated weight.

Just my take on it all,
Doug /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

LAXPatrick · Apr 15, 2005

Here's one way to roughly figure tongue weight - using some common items and a bathroom scale:

Towing Information - TW

LAXPatrick

notamustang · Apr 15, 2005

Swap the axles to 5ks and re-distrube the weight. Pull the plate of and reregister it as a custom built trailer. Heck of a lot less work than adding a goose conversion to it. You have to swap the axles anyway, so place them further up on the trailer to get your distrabution JMO

bdog · Apr 15, 2005

I guess I am misunderstanding something here. If the two axles are rated at 3500 lbs each they can CARRY 7000 lbs right? With a gooseneck it is comon to have 25% of the weight on the tongue so the way I am understanding it you could have 7000 lbs on the axles, and then 2000lbs on the tongue for a gross weight of 9000lbs and not be overloading your axles.

I mean just because your axles can only carry 7k it does not mean your trailer can not weigh more than 7k, it just means you can not put more than 7k on the axles or am I wrong?

I looked into buying axles but I would need new springs, hangers, axles, fenders, tires and this comes out to $1500. The gooseneck conversion costs about $300 and really is about the same amount of work if you consider moving the fenders, etc. Also at 7680 gross I an still over the 7500lb rating of my ball.

Bird · Apr 15, 2005

( am I wrong? )

Nope, bdog, you're right. There's lots of misunderstanding about trailer weights, but I think you've got a pretty good handle on it. The one thing I may have missed, or overlooked, in this thread is the capacity of the truck. When you mention 25% pin weight, will that be too much for the truck? I used to have a 32' fifth-wheel travel trailer that came with two 3,500# axles and I had no problems with it until I made a trip to Alaska and ruined a couple of tires and broke one shock mount. Should have weighed it earlier, of course, but didn't and we had added every option you could get, including a generator and washer/dryer, so when I weighed it, I had 7,300# on the axles and 2,500 on the pin. So I did upgrade to custom built 5,200# axles (but using the axle tubes for the 7,000# axles), larger brakes, new wheels and higher capacity tires. Of course, with the one ton dually truck I had, 2,500# on the pin was no problem, and I was still well within the GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating).

Darren · Apr 15, 2005

I used that method to determine the tongue weight of a car hauler that had a safe stowed all the way forward. The tongue weight was way beyond the allowable. Even after relocating and securing the safe to a position between the dual axles, one of the axles bent 200 miles down the road. The tires were splayed so badly the inside top of the tires was rubbing against the wheel well.

aardvark · Apr 16, 2005

In your first post you said the tractor was in the only location on the trailer where it would fit. To me this means it will be in the same spot after the gooseneck conversion relative to where it is now with the ball hitch. If you add, say, four feet of length in front of where the ball hitch is now, so the gooseneck can go into the truck bed, the lever arm has gotten longer and the ball socket will have less load sitting on it due to the additional lever arm length. If you plan on adding alot of extra steel, then maybe the tongue weight change will be a wash. However, even if the tongue weight is a wash, the axle weight still goes up by the ratio of the change in distances of the new gooseneck hitch relative to the old ball hitch. This is only true if the tractor remains in the same spot relative to the rear axles after the gooseneck is done. If you want to measure the distance from the middle of the two axles to the center of the hitch socket, and estimate the additional distance from the current hitch to the gooseneck hitch socket, I can calculate the additional load on the tires from pushing the hitch forward, assuming the tractor remains in the same place relative to the tires.

bdog · Apr 16, 2005

Bird,
Thanks for reassuring me. I was pretty sure that is how it worked but the others had me wondering.

Aardvark,

You bring up a good point that I thought about a while ago after I already starrted the constructiion. The tractor was all the way forward with the bucket even with the front of the trailer for the weights I gave earlier. Going to a goose neck I can drive the tractor further forward if need be and rest the bucket on top of the gooseneck which should offset the longer lever arm. I am about halfway through the conversion and will finish it tomorrow hopefully. I plan on loading it in the same location as before and weighing it see how I did.

drmiller100 · Apr 16, 2005

a 7000 pound gooseneck is a JOKE. good grief. why bother? a decent gooseneck hitch for the truck is 400 bucks.

sell the trailer, and find a bigger one is the cheapest. move the axles on what you have is the second cheapest.

what is wrong with 1500 pounds tongue weight?

Goosenecks are waaaay cool for towing, but the norm is a minimum of 12k, many are 14k or a lot more. They are easier to hook up, easier to tow, safer then bumper pulls. If you look around, you should be able to find a used gooseneck for 2000-2500 bucks. A decent bumper pull is worth 1500. You'd be money, time, and safety ahead to just step up to the right sized trailer for your application.

bdog · Apr 16, 2005

Well I am almost done with the conversion. So it is too late for anything else. I already have a good BW hitch in my truck I use on my 20' cattle trailer. Building the gooseneck is cheaper than doing the axles. I can not just move the ones I have as they are only 3500 lbs and would be overloaded if I did not have so much weight on the tongue. I would need to buy heavier axles, new tires and wheels, new fenders, etc. which would be well over a grand.

I priced new and used trailers and could not find a gooseneck for less than three grand. I really was hoping to just sell mine and buy a gooseneck but I figure mine is only worth around $1200 and I did not want to spend $1800 on a new trailer right now.

Sure a gooseneck can handle a lot more than this trialer will weigh but it is better to be way under capacity than over. Plus I get all the benefits you mentioned of better towing, etc.

The 1760 tongue weight is was over the ratings of the tongue pull hitch setup. The strongest 2" ball is rated at 7500# gross, 750# tongue weight. My draw bar is 10k gross/1k tongue. My receiver hitch on my truck is rated at 7500 lb gross/ 750 lb tongue weight. I know they over design these things and if I had 800lb or so of tongue weight I would not be worried but at 1760 I am more than double the maximum rated tongue weight on both the ball and receiver hitch.

Like some others have posted I am concerned about the what ifs. Assume some disater does happen and then it comes to light that I was more than twice the rated weight. Not a good thing. Aside from liabilty issues I am nervous all the time when pulling knowing I am way overloaded. Also I do not just use this trialer every now and then. I am pulling it everyday. I do commercial work and pull the trailer close to 500 miles a week.

I will post up some pics of the conversion when done. It is looking good.

cleatus · Apr 17, 2005

Your on the right track and when your finished all you have to do is regeister it as home made, at the weight you want.
Thank God we live in Texas where it's that easy, except that we do have to have tags, unlike Tenn. none is needed under certain gross.

Joey-D · Feb 2, 2009

I know this is way old but if you have pictures I would love to see them. I have a car hauler trailer that I love and bought years ago for $1200 but I live in the city and have an extended cab longbed and want to convert it for the sake of parking my trailer. My email is JoeyDi84@msn.com Thanks in advance.