Hornaday Mach II

[TresCrows]

This post requires no response--it is JFYI for anyone interested. The HMR 17. cal magnum came out a little bit ago based on the Winchester Rimfire Magnum case necked down. Now the have taken the same little 17 cal bullet and stuck it on top of a necked down 22LR Stinger case for 2100 FPS. Rifles and pistols and conversion kits should be out soon. Ammo prices will be considerably less than the HMR. Also, there is a new load with a tougher bullet for the HMR for bigger varmints and I think Federal is loading it also now.
The advantage of the HMII is that the little bullet simply fragments upon striking the critter or whatever and does not richocet like a 22LR bullet does. This makes this a very exciting round for shooting in built up areas where varmints abound and small game, it is quiet as well. This round is not intended for coyote size critters. The new round is said to shoot very flat. I first heard of it a few weeks ago but saw an artical in G&A.
Anyway, there you have it. I love the little guns and maybe this will be a useful addition to rimfire shooters everywhere.
J

 

[fishman]

Trescrows,

Yes, way neat.

Perhaps the biggest advantage of the new 17 HM2 over the 17 HMR is that it will work in the mechanisms of any of the inexpensive 22 rimfires made by numerous companies. It shoots flat and accurate enough to make 150 yard shots a probability as opposed to luck. But anybody with a Ruger 10/22 in their gun cabinet ought to take note. I'm sure replacement barrels are on their way in this little round. Full roll out of this caliber is expected by September.

If anybody wants further info, just check out the latest issue of Guns and Ammo or Shooting Times, or if you are an NRA member you'll see it in the American Rifleman

 

[RobertN]

I shot a few rounds of the 17 mag a while back. It was really nice! Iteresting how that little .17 makes a .22 type/size barrel look like like a bull barrel.

What is the price difference between the two ammo?

 

[TresCrows]

Well, after learning of the round a few weekss ago I did some research. The MII ammo is supposed to be less than half the price of the HMR and competitive with premium 22LR ammo.

Yes, I think their is already a kit out for the Ruger 10/22 from Butler Creek, I think or very soon anyways. This new round is significant because it pushes the the little V Max bullet to within a few hundred FPS of the HMR yet should be much cheaper and retrofittable to many exisiting hunting weapons. I am not going to convert my favorite 22 guns--nope--I still like my 22s but I am going to buy something to shoot this new 17 with. My current 22 fleet is a Ruger Single Six convertable (SS) with target sights, a Ruger MII auto pistol with 5.5 inch bull barrel (SS) and target sights, a Ruger 10/22 carbine with scope (SS and syn stock), a Winchester lever rifle in 22MAG (blued with snap on/off scope), my Remington bolt heirloom rifle with antique scope, a Marlin auto rifle--also scoped, and my target grade Ruger 22 Hornet centerfire with 3-14X scope. I am looking to buy a TC in the HMR, their new single shot carbine convertable and I will be looking at the new Mach II Ruger auto rifle or maybe a little bolt or a Henry lever--have not decided, I also like the Stevens Favorite--way cool little rifle.
Hey, there is a new Ruger caliber, the, 204 Ruger, and I sure like the new WSSM in 243 and 250 in a light mountain style rifle. Why do they call those light bolts mountain rifles /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif, they work just great in ther Big Thicket of East Texas and Louisiana.

Currently, I have two brush piles and a wooded fence line that I snipe from my back deck while drinking Community coffee--very gentile sport. The range is 75 to 150 yards. The critters I am shooting are field mice, wood rats, a mole, and scratch one strange acting skunk that kept spraying my dogs. I don't bother my neighborly coyotes, the foxes I see along the edge of the woods or the bobcat I called in, the squirrls or the nesting hawk (5 years in a row) or any of those critters including several snakes I see patroling my little empire. I think there maybe a badger back there--not sure but I saw some strange markings, not familar with badgers much being mostly a yankee critter. I think if there is he can stay too as long as he minds his buisness. J

 

[RobertN]

That TC with a 4 or 6x scope would be a good one. A nice bright 4x scope is perfect for the 75-150 yard range. A single shot, with a relatively heavy barrel, well, that would be right nice!

A Remington 700 based full bull barrel would be sweet too, kinda along the lines of the 40x match rifle. Match that with a 8x or 12x target or varmit scope. Tack driver!

 

[TresCrows]

Robert, have you had good luck with TC rifles? Just wondering. There is a new Ruger .204 that is supposed to be flat out awesome for varmints of any sort. It is a centerfire so reloading and custom tailoring ammo is avaialble. I am undecided aas to whether to get one in the TC rifle/carbine or go ahead and get another Rugger M77 in the target grade. I already got one of those in my 22 Hornet /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. I could trade the Hornet, I have had several nice offers but I like that rifle /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Anyway, the TC would be a possibility as will be the Ruger auto 10/17MII when it comes out late this year. The HMR is already avaialble in the 10/17HMR and as a 22 Mag in the 10/22WRF.
There is some consideration by those who like to carry the biggest weapon possible that the 22Mag is to small for coyotes and that a 223, 22-250, new Ruger .204 etc are needed. Thing is I know lot's of people that shoot coyotes with the 22 Magnum including me and they always drop. Course, I pick my shots for humane reasons but still, out to 100 yards or even 150 it has not been a problem. I did have problems with those little Pecaris in Arizona but the Hornet put them down easy where the 22 Mag would occasionally not quiet get it done. I guess they have tough skin and darn little critters won't be still /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. so you can get a good hit on them. They good to eat /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.
I never bothered to find out if turkey hunting here is legal with the 22. Probably is not but I get lot's of turkeys here along the wooded fence row and I could easily take one from rare time to time for eating /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but getting close enough to use a silly scatter gun is probably not possible. Well, I do got one nice spot in a tree on the corner of my property where the fence line intersects a stream drainage. I have used various calls including the new electronic ones to call in all sorts of stuff. Last fall I called in a beautiful coyote. He was blonde furred with yellow eyes and unlike most he was very cautious approaching--most just saunter in as if to say--"where is the happy meal?"--he was also very big and healty looking--almost fat. I switched from my electronic caller and went to a old hand caller I had since forever and he came right under the tree. I did have my Hornet--but---it was kinda funny. I kinda got tired and shifted position and he heard me right off and then he looked up and saw me and he just kinda crouched down with this look of terror in his eyes as if to say "oh please God ask him not to shoot me", well, I don't know what he was really thinking /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif but I decided it was not his day and said "shoo critter" and he was gone so fast it was as if he had never been there /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif J

 

[Egon]

On rifle's and and sizing.

There will always be new combinations available. Be they exceeding good or duplicate age old versions is a moot question.

In the caliber youse be talking about getting a combination that exceeds the 220 swift will be a major achievement.

Egon

 

[RobertN]

I have friends with TC contenders, who have done well by them. I have had or been around TC Hawken rifles since the early 70's; they have always been excellent.

Another option for the M77 is to rebarrel, and hold on to the Hornet barrel for later use. The semi's are fine, and accurate, but I still like a nice bolt or single shot, especially in a bull barrel. I grew up shooting black powder rifles, and like the concept of the one really good shot.

I like the classic calibres, and improvements on them. For a fine mid range low recoil cartridge, the 250-3000 Savage is still a fine performer. Ackley did a "Improved" version which was exceptional(need to reload for the improved versions). The 250-3000 in a mdl-99 lever is a fine shooter, all the way to deer and antelope size critters. That cartridge in a bull barrel bolt gun would be a lot of fun to work with, especially to handload for. Ken Waters would really like that setup.

Have you checked out the "Pet Loads" series of articles by Ken Waters? They are a great resource for the handloader. The books are a lot of his articles from years of writing for Handloader.

Critters sitting still... I shot a few prairie dogs with a 12" TC in .375JDJ. Talk about a tack driver! Benched, it'll do 1" 200 yard groups. It's a .444 Marlin necked to .375. That stuff JDJ does is pretty impressive.

Most states allow turkey by scattergun. Calif added high-power pellet rifle a few years ago. Out here, they are all over the place, except when I have the shotgun... You can get 20' from them a lot of times.

Wild Turkey is really good, slow roasted. Marinate them over night in a mix of 1c rock salt, 1/5th Wild Turkey whiskey, and water to cover. You'll never want to eat domestic turkey again...

 

[TresCrows]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( On rifle's and and sizing.

There will always be new combinations available. Be they exceeding good or duplicate age old versions is a moot question.

In the caliber youse be talking about getting a combination that exceeds the 220 swift will be a major achievement.

Egon )</font>

Have you read about the new .204 Ruger? Since it is not actually out yet it remains to be seen how it will actually perform but it is said to achieve extreme velocities well over 4,000 FPS with lower pressures, lower recoil, less barrel wear and throat erosion, less report than the 220 Swift and 22-250. Just curious if you have read anything about it yet. Since it is centerfire handloading will be routine for this cartridge. Ruger I think has five models chambered for it and TC is going to chamber it as well. I imagine there will be others if it lives up to the hype in addition of course to custom chambering.
Robert, the M7722 Hornet probably cannot be rechambered/barreled for the .204 Ruger, it would take the stronger full size M77 actions /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif therefore I would have to buy another rifle. The .204 will be available initially from Hornaday with a 32 gr V-max and a 40 grain hollow point with muzzle velocites over 4,200 FPS.
Other than that, I think you missed the point Egon--not arguing--but the 220 Swift has a loud report not suited to shooting in built up areas thus my facination with the small stuff and a 220 Swift is not "small" stuff, the 22 Mag, 17HMR and the new 17MII etc are. Limited range in the 17s and frangible bullets that disintergrate upon contact with anything more substantial than a blade of grass are attractive to many. Isn't the 220 Swift kinda like a sledge hammer approach to a chuck or coyote anyway except at the most extreme ranges /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif. I do agree, it is the smallest bullet with the biggest brass behind it /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. I can make do with a lot less /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. J

 

[RobertN]

Sorry I didn't clarify. The M77 could change barrels from 22-Hornet to the new .17 round. That would be pretty easy. The new .204, based on what you have mentioned must be case size of approximately the .223Rem or .17Rem and would need a standard short action. I just read thier web page; clarifies it a bit. They show it offered in the No.1 single shot. That would be a fine, fine combination.