"I guess its only a problem if you use the hour meter on the tractor to charge out time on a job." oosik well maybe. but if the actual clock hrs are more than the mechanical cable (pto related) tach, there are also scheduled maintenance & 2nd hand purchase issues (engine has more hrs than meter recorded) this may be pedantic but it is something to keep in mind as the hours accumulate on a given machine. best regards
Hour Meter Issue
- Thread starter sycamore
- Start date
- Views: 18017
LD1
Epic Contributor
Actually, an hour meter that is RPM based is a better way to do the services and oil changes. It is accounted for by the MFG. If they call for an oil change at 50 hours (and your PTO speed is 2400RPM), they are basically saying that the oil needs changed every 7.2 million revolutions of the engine.
So obviously at idle, it will take more "clock" time to get there. If you idle away at 600 RPM for 50 clock hours, you have only put 1.8 million turns on the engine. So your oil is only 25% used up.
herringchoker
Platinum Member
Exactly! :thumbsup:
\ ld1
to be honest i would beg to differ on your conclusion for scheduled maintenance. but the thread now may be moving away from the op original question. personally, i would approach scheduled maintenance on actual clock real time hrs on an engine, not pto tach hrs..... but as many times before, i may well be mistaken... best :drink:
LD1
Epic Contributor
The engine is not seeing any wear (loading up the filter) and the oil is not wearing out if it isnt running. If it is running at 1/4th the speed, is it that hard to understand that the oil and filter is only seeing 1/4 the wear.
Do you think that 50hrs (clock time) at idle is the same wear as 50hrs of hard running?
Bird
Rest in Peace
This topic has been discussed in the past a few times, but without going back and looking up the old threads:
When I bought a new 1995 Kubota B7100, I learned that the "hour" meter was simply a clock that was running any time the key was turned on, whether or not the engine was running.
So that's one kind of "hour" meter.
Then I bought a new 1999 Kubota B2710, and I soon learned that the "hour" meter registered an hour only if it was constantly running at PTO speed; slower speeds registered proportionally less time.
So that's another kind of "hour" meter.
So they can be different, even within the same tractor brand. I have no personal experience with any other kinds of "hour" meter, if such exists.
When I bought a new 1995 Kubota B7100, I learned that the "hour" meter was simply a clock that was running any time the key was turned on, whether or not the engine was running.
So that's one kind of "hour" meter.
Then I bought a new 1999 Kubota B2710, and I soon learned that the "hour" meter registered an hour only if it was constantly running at PTO speed; slower speeds registered proportionally less time.
So that's another kind of "hour" meter.
So they can be different, even within the same tractor brand. I have no personal experience with any other kinds of "hour" meter, if such exists.
we are now moving into the realm of the pedantic. all i am saying is that if your are looking at a rental w/2000hrs with a mechanical tach, that engine may well have close to 3000 hrs on the engine. figure in the oil changes along the way, and there is a discrepancy. perhaps this has no bearing on the typical user in his scheduled maintenance...all i am saying is that total hrs on the engine/hyd may be quite different depending on the type of tach . but your are correct in saying the manu. should already have this in place...nonetheless, it is useful info for the owner to know. and that the dealer/seller should inform the buyer as such.... best regards
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CDN Farm Boy
Veteran Member
As others have said, there are 3 types. Mechanical, electric straight time and electric with rpm adjusted speed. They are what they are.
As for worrying about maintenance on either of the 2 compensating types, would it not be reasonable to think the manufacturer is aware of this when determining service intervals?
I agree with LD1.
If still not convinced, think about it like this: since a straight time meter is much cheaper to build and install, why would a manufacturer go to the extra expense and effort to design and install an electronically speed sensitive one if there wasn't an advantage for having it?
As for worrying about maintenance on either of the 2 compensating types, would it not be reasonable to think the manufacturer is aware of this when determining service intervals?
I agree with LD1.
If still not convinced, think about it like this: since a straight time meter is much cheaper to build and install, why would a manufacturer go to the extra expense and effort to design and install an electronically speed sensitive one if there wasn't an advantage for having it?
why would a manufacturer go to the extra expense and effort to design and install an electronically speed sensitive one if there wasn't an advantage for having it? cdn farm boy
because it's a more accurate way of recording engine hrs simple
because it's a more accurate way of recording engine hrs simple
DK35vince
Super Member
The Straight time hour meters measure clock hours any time the key is on.
Electronic speed sensitive meters would measure hours by engine speed, similar to the mechanical meters.
i do apologize in diverting this thread from the op question. i guess what i'm getting at is the actual hours on your engine can depend on the type of tach/hr meter you have. in my own mind i would rather know how many actual real time hours are on my engine for maintenance purposes, rather than hrs based on rpm @ 540 pto output. as pointed out, this may not make a difference in fluid changes, or regular maintenance etc. however from my pt of view, it is something to keep in mind esp when buying used tractors with say w/2000 plus hrs on the mechanical meter. that's all.... just to keep the discussion at a peaceful level 
LD1
Epic Contributor
But not a more accurate way of recording engine wear. (as far as valve adjusts, major overhauls, etc) is concerned.
With a straight electric "clock" tach, there is a BIG difference between 2000hrs of light use and 2000hrs of hard use but no way to tell the difference.
A mechanical tach is a more accurate way of determining what condition the engine is in.
A mechanical tach is a more accurate way of determining what condition the engine is in. ld1 sorry, will have to have more evidence than just your word. may be wrong, but not convinced...just my opinion... perhaps you should post another thread on this as this is getting lost.
CDN Farm Boy
Veteran Member
Accuracy in this case is subjective.
I know that if I'm looking at a machine with rpm hrs, it will be adjusted regardless of how it was used. On a straight time machine, how do you know if the hrs were mostly idling or full throttle? Trust the seller? I know I wouldn't.
You could always add a 12V hr meter to a rpm machine if you felt that was better info to have. Pretty hard to add an adjusted one
OP
sycamore
New member
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Thanks everyone, this is great information. I guess this old farm guy didn't really know how hour meters worked after all. So you've answered my question. The best question for me came from Kanook - "Sure you want to let them (my dealer) work on your tractor"? They don't seem to have a clue. I think I will be searching for a different dealer.
Most annoying thing about an hour meter not recording actual run hours is that I use this info for my business records and I am also involved in a farm partnership where we get reimbursed for our equipment use. Guess I will just need to carry a stop watch or remember to use the timer on my IPhone.
At any rate, thanks for the great education.
Most annoying thing about an hour meter not recording actual run hours is that I use this info for my business records and I am also involved in a farm partnership where we get reimbursed for our equipment use. Guess I will just need to carry a stop watch or remember to use the timer on my IPhone.
At any rate, thanks for the great education.
DK35vince
Super Member
You can always install a 12 volt run time hour meter if you feel you want/need one.
They are low priced and easy to install.
12 volt hour meter | eBay
skyhook
Veteran Member
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I just noticed, my hour meter clock has no big or little hand.
Bird
Rest in Peace
Don't some trucks have both kinds of hour meter? I would think that some of the bigger tractors would, too. When my brothers were Matco Tool Distributors, of course the trucks had the usual odometer in the instrument panel, but since those trucks are rolling showrooms with lots of lights and air-conditioning, they were never shut off during the day, so they spent a lot of time idling. As a result, there was an hour meter that was used to determine maintenance schedules; i.e., oil changes and such.
Bird
Rest in Peace
I just noticed, my hour meter clock has no big or little hand.
Contact your dealer and ask if he can fix it.
"they were never shut off during the day, so they spent a lot of time idling. As a result, there was an hour meter that was used to determine maintenance schedules; i.e., oil changes and such. " bird there ya go... was thinking along the same lines...i would much rather schedule fluid changes on a 1:1 hr meter basis rather that engine speed hrs that almost always would end up being more hrs on engine than recorded. that was my only point in this discussion
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