hours

[N80]

Considering the way I use my tractor, measuring the hours based on PTO speed on the tach (2200 rpm) will not tell the prospective buyer much about how my tractor is used. I rarely spend much clock time at 2200 rpm. Most of my use is back-and-forth type stuff. Even mowing I barely get to 2200 rpm. But, that doesn't mean the engine isn't under load. At times it is under extreme loads, repetatively, without ever breaking 2200 rpm. I have no idea what tach speed my hour meter is calibrated to. I have no idea what this means in terms of my maintanence schedule...maybe I should do things a little earlier than the manual calls for. Of course, I'm assuming Kubota takes all of this into account.

 

[Soundguy]

Having a set tach/hour calibration is still plenty usefull even if you are not doing pto work.

If I am buying a loader tractor, that the owner said only mowed 5% of it's life, and the other 95% was drawbar or loader time.. then i can look at that tach hour time and then inflate it to get an idea of usage. Since the meter will be ratio locked with the tach, lets say your pto rpm on the enging is 2200, and you do 95% of your loader work closer to 1800 rpm. That means for every clock hour you work, you have really worked 71 minutes, not 60 minutes.

if i see 600 clock hours on your tach, I just apply that ratio. That's more like 708 hours.

( by the way.. if you are doing "extreme" heavy load mowing ( your own words ).. IMHO.. you should be at pto speed.. that's most likely where your engines sweet power spot is closest to.

Soundguy

 

[Marcussen]

My Kubota L2800 hour meter is based on RPM . I figured that out after checking my watch versus the hour meter. The almost never matches . Using the one billon rotations for life expectancy I can excpect the the engine to last 6944 hours. (2400 RPM = one hour) With my normal use it will should last me 46 years (150 hours a year). I will do my part with regular maintenance .

 

[Turbys_1700]

On my NH 1720 the hours are calculated at 1833 RPM's. My Yanmar was calculated at 2500 RPM's. I guess that I would never wear out either machine in my lifetime. Most of my use is with a RFM so the engine is not in a very hard strain. I would not worry about hours that much. I would be more concerned about maint. An engine with 2000 well maintained hours may be better than a poorly maintained one at 500 hours.

 

[Dusty]

To me, it isn't hours worked, but maintenance that is the important question. Low hours with no oil changes are not good.
Dusty

 

[N80]

Having a set tach/hour calibration is still plenty usefull even if you are not doing pto work.

If I am buying a loader tractor, that the owner said only mowed 5% of it's life, and the other 95% was drawbar or loader time.. then i can look at that tach hour time and then inflate it to get an idea of usage. Since the meter will be ratio locked with the tach, lets say your pto rpm on the enging is 2200, and you do 95% of your loader work closer to 1800 rpm. That means for every clock hour you work, you have really worked 71 minutes, not 60 minutes.

if i see 600 clock hours on your tach, I just apply that ratio. That's more like 708 hours.

Makes sense.

( by the way.. if you are doing "extreme" heavy load mowing ( your own words ).. IMHO.. you should be at pto speed.. that's most likely where your engines sweet power spot is closest to.

Soundguy

You read it right, but I said it wrong. I didn't intend it to say that the mowing was extreme, but it looks that way. What I was trying to say was that my mowing is often at less than PTO speeds, but at other times the engine is under extreme loads doing other stuff besides mowing (pushing trees over, digging stumps, etc.). With these activities I'm going slow, usually in 2 low and the RPMs sometimes get up to 2200 but rarely stay there. In any case, I agree, if the mowing is heavy my tractor (probably all tractors) works best at PTO speed.

 

[john_bud]

My Kubota L2800 hour meter is based on RPM . I figured that out after checking my watch versus the hour meter. The almost never matches . Using the one billon rotations for life expectancy I can excpect the the engine to last 6944 hours. (2400 RPM = one hour) With my normal use it will should last me 46 years (150 hours a year). I will do my part with regular maintenance .

Your last line says it all, "I will do my part with regular maintenance".

jb

 

[Soundguy]

You read it right, but I said it wrong. I didn't intend it to say that the mowing was extreme, but it looks that way. What I was trying to say was that my mowing is often at less than PTO speeds, but at other times the engine is under extreme loads doing other stuff besides mowing (pushing trees over, digging stumps, etc.). With these activities I'm going slow, usually in 2 low and the RPMs sometimes get up to 2200 but rarely stay there. In any case, I agree, if the mowing is heavy my tractor (probably all tractors) works best at PTO speed.

Ahh.. got it. That makes sense.

thanks

Soundguy

 

[NewToy]

My Kubota L2800 hour meter is based on RPM . I figured that out after checking my watch versus the hour meter. The almost never matches . Using the one billon rotations for life expectancy I can excpect the the engine to last 6944 hours. (2400 RPM = one hour) With my normal use it will should last me 46 years (150 hours a year). I will do my part with regular maintenance .

Is your hourmeter an analog or a digital type? Was trying to determine if the folks with the digital variety have the PTO rpm's factored in.
John

 

[whitetiger]

Is your hourmeter an analog or a digital type? Was trying to determine if the folks with the digital variety have the PTO rpm's factored in.
John

With an electronic hour meter every sixty minutes = 1 hour no matter what RPM the engine is running.

 

[Soundguy]

With an electronic hour meter every sixty minutes = 1 hour no matter what RPM the engine is running.

Maybee.. maybee not. An electric clock style meter ( hobbs ) will run that way.. Now.. if the tractor had a digital display on a tach based hour meter.. it mat read just like an analog unit that was based on pto (rpm) hours.. etc.

That's what I think the other user was asking..

Soundguy

 

[jk96]

I own a DX33, 84 hours. Here's the wording straight from my owners manual.

"Proof Meter - records the hours and protions of hours that your tractor has been operated regardless of engine RPM"

JK
DX33, 72" MMM, Loader, Post Hole Auger

 

[NewToy]

Why do you find that strange. What about a tractor that runs 1 hr at pto rpm vs a tractor that ran 1 hr at just above idle? Don't you feel the tractor that was run harder should show more correct time based on usage, vs the tractor that putted around showing a lower time. Seings as how most tractors use a mechanical hour meter that is calibrated (usually) to pto rpm/hhours.. that seems very -normal- to me. I.E. 1 hr at pto rpm = 1 tractor clock hour = 1 wristwatch hour.

1 hr at half pto rpm = 1/2 tractor clock hour .. etc..


I have seen some tractors with electronic hour meters that ran any time the key was on.. thus you could turn the key on.. not start the tractor, and your tractror meter showed +1 hour.... that's not a good indicator IMHO.. etc..

Soundguy

Thats what I found strange about the hourmeter deal, a digital meter will have you on a different maintenance schedule than the analog variety.

 

[Soundguy]

Only if the digital meter is showing clock hours, vs rpm hours.

Soundguy

 

[whitetiger]

On a modern era tractor with a electric hour meter there is no connection between hours and RPM's. At idle 60 minutes = 1 hour same as wide open throttle. It works exactly like the hour meter on my 2003 Silverado 2500 HD.

 

[Doc_Bob]

On a modern era tractor with a electric hour meter there is no connection between hours and RPM's. At idle 60 minutes = 1 hour same as wide open throttle. It works exactly like the hour meter on my 2003 Silverado 2500 HD.

My 2003 New Holland TN70A is not one to one. One hour (real time) at 1400 hr only puts 2/3 of an hour on the meter. Now, 2200 rpm (540 rpm for pto) puts on one hour for each hour at 2200 rpm.
Bob

 

[AndyMA]

Bob

Does your TN have a digital or analog hour meter. I believe my TN75D has a digital hour meter that counts real time even if the engine is not running but the key is on.


Andy

 

[Doc_Bob]

Bob

Does your TN have a digital or analog hour meter. I believe my TN75D has a digital hour meter that counts real time even if the engine is not running but the key is on.


Andy

I don't know? How would I tell?
Bob

 

[Soundguy]

On a modern era tractor with a electric hour meter there is no connection between hours and RPM's. At idle 60 minutes = 1 hour same as wide open throttle. It works exactly like the hour meter on my 2003 Silverado 2500 HD.

Wt.. having a digital display ( led/lcd ) and an analog countiong meter is not new. I have heavy equipment parked outside with digital dash clusters, yet they still count pto hours.

Digital -display- and digital clock ( vs analog clock ) are 2 seperate items.

You could have a digital clock and an analog numeric display.. or an analog clock with analog display, or a digital clock with digital display. In short.. the display does not automatically dictate the clock metering method.

I can hit radioshack and pick up a handfull of parts and make a display that uses 2 multi segment led's, and a trip switch and a display driver circuit and a simple counting circuit. Each trip of the switch add's +1. You could put this on a bicycle and mount on a rear wheel support and put a business card in the spokes to trip switch on every wheel rotation.

No matter how long that bike 'sets' there.. the digital display won't change numbers, until that wheel starts spinning. See where this is going?

( display type does not denote clock metering method )

Similarly, it would be quite easy to make a digital display circuit that accepted trigger input from a counting circuit, and the counting circuit was reading some engine reference like a timing pulse, or crank or other gear or shaft rotation, doing the math to equate pto rotation, and then triggering when 'x' rotations were met to signify a pto rotation, then sending that info to the digital clock display.. as pto rotations were counted and added, the display would increment.. etc... ( now add in other circuitry for memory, and etc.. and you may well get what some tractors and other equipment are using..

Soundguy

 

[Harry c]

The two types of hour meters can be compared to the odometer or the trip timer on a car.

Obviously a car at 15 mph does not turn as many engine revolutions as a car at 60 mph in a single hour.

The trip timer on my car simply counts the hours the car was running, not how far or how fast it went. If the hour meter simply counts the actual time that the switch is on you have no way to know whether it was run at the equivelent of 15 or 60 mph. (Or quite possibly sitting around with the switch on to use the headlights, engine idling or not running at all. I confess to doing that on several occasions)

The odometer tells how far the car traveled. This is a direct correlation to the number of revolutions the engine has made (if you ignore the relatively little time the transmission stays in a lower gear). This is a pretty good indication of wear. If the odometer on a car shows 200,000 miles, my guess is the car is pretty well worn. I don't really care if it was at 15 mph or 60 mph, the wear will be roughly the same. A time count hour meter would show a whopping 13,333 hours if the car had been driven 200,000 miles at an avarage speed of 15 mph, and only 3,333 hours if it were driven at an average of 60 mph.


There will be far less wear per clock hour at a low load, low rpm than at high load, high rpm, yet the actual time hour meters on two different machines with far different use patterns could read the same. The hour meter may or may not be a good indication of wear or usage. At any rate this type meter can't really be depended on for any important info. Unfortunately many tractors are set up this way and service intervals are specified using this meter. Kinda' like changing the oil in your car because your son's been sitting in it listening to that Bose stereo for 50 hours. Doesn't make sense but it's what we're told to do and we're doing it!

The PTO speed adjusted hour meter is similar to the odometer in that it basically counts the engine revolutions and converts it to the equivelent of hours at a particular speed (usually the engine speed that gives the recommended PTO speed). Like the odometer, it is directly related to the number of revolutions the engine has made which is a pretty good indication of wear. You change your car engine oil based on the miles driven, not the time. Right?

My home tractor is used mostly at low load and low speed. Hauling things around the yard, light mowing at 3/4 speed, or sitting idling while I look for that rake I just had...somewhere... so I can unload and spread that bucket full of mulch. Out of any 100 hours clock time I probably use maybe 30 hours worth of revolutions at PTO speed. This can be compared to a backhoe used on a pipeline job. The thing starts in the morning, hits wide open and stays there all day long. The PTO hours would probably be 95% of the clock hours.

Point is: don't be as concerned with hours as condition. A machine that's been pounded will show the wear. If it looks good, its probably in pretty good shape.