hours

[whitetiger]

Wt.. having a digital display ( led/lcd ) and an analog countiong meter is not new. I have heavy equipment parked outside with digital dash clusters, yet they still count pto hours.

Digital -display- and digital clock ( vs analog clock ) are 2 seperate items.

You could have a digital clock and an analog numeric display.. or an analog clock with analog display, or a digital clock with digital display. In short.. the display does not automatically dictate the clock metering method.

I can hit radioshack and pick up a handfull of parts and make a display that uses 2 multi segment led's, and a trip switch and a display driver circuit and a simple counting circuit. Each trip of the switch add's +1. You could put this on a bicycle and mount on a rear wheel support and put a business card in the spokes to trip switch on every wheel rotation.

No matter how long that bike 'sets' there.. the digital display won't change numbers, until that wheel starts spinning. See where this is going?

( display type does not denote clock metering method )

Similarly, it would be quite easy to make a digital display circuit that accepted trigger input from a counting circuit, and the counting circuit was reading some engine reference like a timing pulse, or crank or other gear or shaft rotation, doing the math to equate pto rotation, and then triggering when 'x' rotations were met to signify a pto rotation, then sending that info to the digital clock display.. as pto rotations were counted and added, the display would increment.. etc... ( now add in other circuitry for memory, and etc.. and you may well get what some tractors and other equipment are using..

Soundguy

I am well aware that there is a great difference in how things are done in heavy industrial equipment. I have a very good friend that has serviced it for over 25 years and we do compair notes.
I think the question was about a small tractor. In the last couple days as I have been running different tractors I have watched the hour meters and on a TN75DA with digital dash it keep time the same as a TV145 and a TG 215. Every 6 minutes it adds 1/10 at approx 1200 ERPM. I personal have never seen an ag unit with a non cable drive tack that has anything different than a 60 min = 1 hour hourmeter. None of the models I checked added hours with out the engine running.
Combines have two hour meters, one for engine run time just like a tractor and one for threasher hours which only runs with machine seperator engaged.

 

[Doc_Bob]

I think the question was about a small tractor. In the last couple days as I have been running different tractors I have watched the hour meters and on a TN75DA with digital dash it keep time the same as a TV145 and a TG 215. Every 6 minutes it adds 1/10 at approx 1200 ERPM. I personal have never seen an ag unit with a non cable drive tack that has anything different than a 60 min = 1 hour hourmeter. .

My TN70A is a wee bit different. If my ERPM is less than 2200 rpm, I get less time on my hour meter than my engine time. I only noticed this one day when I was using my hour meter as my watch. My wife came out and wanted to know why I was late. I looked at said it had been only 2 hours. It had been more like 3 hours. That is when I started paying attention. When I run at 2200 rpm when doing bush hogging, I get hour for hour. When I run around at 1300 RPM carrying light loads of wood chips, my hour meter gives me less time on the clock than my actual run time. Many times when doing light work, I can drop down to 700 rpm then back up to 1200 or 1100 or 1300 ERPM. So, every our on the meter is really much longer in real time.

I will take another look. You have got my interest on this issue.
Bob

 

[Soundguy]

It's not just heavy equipment.. or industrial.. it's however the manufacture set up that equipment line.

My 'ag' tractor.. does not have a cable drive tach.. rather electric pulses are picked up off the alternator.. and thus hours are added at pto rpm based clock metering.. not real time based metering.. I.E. I rack up less hours while idline and greasing and refueling vs mowing or traveling down the road.

It's not a white/black cut/dry issue.. it falls down to how each piece of equipment is setup.. As i stated before... the display type does not dictate the metering method.

Soundguy

I am well aware that there is a great difference in how things are done in heavy industrial equipment. I have a very good friend that has serviced it for over 25 years and we do compair notes.
I think the question was about a small tractor. In the last couple days as I have been running different tractors I have watched the hour meters and on a TN75DA with digital dash it keep time the same as a TV145 and a TG 215. Every 6 minutes it adds 1/10 at approx 1200 ERPM. I personal have never seen an ag unit with a non cable drive tack that has anything different than a 60 min = 1 hour hourmeter. None of the models I checked added hours with out the engine running.
Combines have two hour meters, one for engine run time just like a tractor and one for threasher hours which only runs with machine seperator engaged.

 

[NewToy]

My TN70A is a wee bit different. If my ERPM is less than 2200 rpm, I get less time on my hour meter than my engine time. I only noticed this one day when I was using my hour meter as my watch. My wife came out and wanted to know why I was late. I looked at said it had been only 2 hours. It had been more like 3 hours. That is when I started paying attention. When I run at 2200 rpm when doing bush hogging, I get hour for hour. When I run around at 1300 RPM carrying light loads of wood chips, my hour meter gives me less time on the clock than my actual run time. Many times when doing light work, I can drop down to 700 rpm then back up to 1200 or 1100 or 1300 ERPM. So, every our on the meter is really much longer in real time.

I will take another look. You have got my interest on this issue.
Bob

Is your hourmeter a digital or analog type?

John

 

[Doc_Bob]

Is your hourmeter a digital or analog type?

John

I assume you mean digital with digital readout? Then no. Mine is a nice analog gauge. Is that what you mean?
Bob

 

[NewToy]

I assume you mean digital with digital readout? Then no. Mine is a nice analog gauge. Is that what you mean?
Bob

That's exactly what I was trying to say. From what I gather the digital type count straight clock time regardless of what the RPM's are and the analog variety vary according to RPM's.
John

 

[Jay4200]

NOT to bump heads with anyone here at all but all the hour meters I am familiar with work off the electrical switch or oil pressure. No RPM thing at all.

My Kubota L4200 hour meter is a tach meter.
It reads in HOURS*RPM/(PTO RPM)

Jay

 

[Soundguy]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. From what I gather the digital type count straight clock time regardless of what the RPM's are and the analog variety vary according to RPM's.
John

Again.. display type does not automatically denote metering method. i have plenty of heavy equipment that rack up tach hours but have a digital LED dash display.

What you need to know id the metering method.. not the display method.

Soundguy

 

[NewToy]

Again.. display type does not automatically denote metering method. i have plenty of heavy equipment that rack up tach hours but have a digital LED dash display.

What you need to know id the metering method.. not the display method.

Soundguy

I was taliking about tractors and not heavy equipment. Can you site an example of a digital hourmeter on any brand CUT that registers anything other than straight clock hours? I would think it to be a pretty sophisticated gadget to factor RPM's in it's time keeping duties.
John

 

[dgl24087]

It doesn't have to be sophisticated at all, a tach cable running to the hour meter which records the rpms, it would be preprogrammed to equate rpms to hours.

 

[NewToy]

It doesn't have to be sophisticated at all, a tach cable running to the hour meter which records the rpms, it would be preprogrammed to equate rpms to hours.

I guess sophisticated wasn't the best word to use. I have just never seen a digital hour meter with a tach cable running to it. I would think it would be easier to measure the RPM's electronically and factor into the time keeping. That makes me wonder about the tachometers on some of the more gadget laden tractors out there. Are the RPM's registered mechanically on them or electronically like the newer cars? I know my tractor has a tach cable but I'd guess that some of the fancier models out there have done away with a tach cable all together.
John

 

[Soundguy]

I was taliking about tractors and not heavy equipment. Can you site an example of a digital hourmeter on any brand CUT that registers anything other than straight clock hours? I would think it to be a pretty sophisticated gadget to factor RPM's in it's time keeping duties.
John

I'm guessing that you don't have a strong working knowledge of modern electronics. You are seemingly not able to seperate the concept of a 'clock' that calculates time based on a constant factor, vs a meter that calculates time based on a variable factor. in the case of a 'timer' clock, it is adding +1 for every real hour that passes. A metered clock will register +1 hour for every 'x' events that occour. These events may be timing pulses that are picked up from a gear sensor, or may be electronc pulses picked up from the alternator. ( or even calculated data based on engine rpm, and gear selection, via a very simple engine computer ) After 'x' pulses are accumulated, then +1 hour is displayed. As i said before.. i can build this circuit with a handfull of parts from radioshack.

I'll ask around to some of my friends that have tractors with digital displays. I know a few of them have chalangers.. some are kubota.

For heavy equipment.. it's available.. I have a hitachi excavator like this.. a volvo loader.. etc.

And the distinction between ag and industrial equipment isn't a hard and fast line in the sand. There are many tractors that have an industrial counterpart that have just a few options changed.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I guess sophisticated wasn't the best word to use. I have just never seen a digital hour meter with a tach cable running to it. I would think it would be easier to measure the RPM's electronically and factor into the time keeping. That makes me wonder about the tachometers on some of the more gadget laden tractors out there. Are the RPM's registered mechanically on them or electronically like the newer cars? I know my tractor has a tach cable but I'd guess that some of the fancier models out there have done away with a tach cable all together.
John

I think the confusion here is that you are assuming anything with a digital readout is a 'digital hour meter' That's an assumption kind like seeing a mug of steaming dark liquid and assuming it is coffee.. when in fact it may be strong tea. A gauge with some numbers on it via led segments can be showing 'time' or tach hours.. all depends on what the manufacturer set it up for.

It's easy to get tach pulses from a alternator that is equipped to provide them.

I've seen digital tachometers for lawnmowers that just use an inductive pickup wrapped around a spark plug wire. it is a digital display about the size of a watch.. runs on a watch battery, and is double-sided- taped to your dash.. it has 1 single pickup wire. It measures 'real' on time from whent he engine starts to stop, and it measures tach time based on rpm at a preset level, also displays rpm.. you choose the display mode. I've seen these on ebay and from northern tool in the past.

Soundguy

 

[NewToy]

Soundguy, You are correct in your assumption that I am no electronics wizard. All of your electronic knowledge is fine, I am proud of you. But, the question was; Is there a CUT with a digital hourmeter that records other than straight clock time. I don't think so and don't care how they make it work. I'm happy to stick a CD in the slot and jam to the Stones without a care in the world of how it works. By the by, I can smell the difference between coffee and "really strong tea" which I detest. I also understand how time works. What I was trying to figure out, and you have obviously missed the point, is how the various mfg's determine how to calculate an hour which is 60 minutes. Are they all the same? Do their digital HM's track exactly the same as their analog varients? If you don't know just say it and go tear apart an I-Pod to help with your frustration.
John

 

[Soundguy]

I'll have to get back to you on the CUT question... All my 'CUT's are from the 1950's or so... and my 'newer' stuff is in the UT and AG range in size.

Soundguy

 

[NewToy]

Fair enough. And I was just kidding about the I-Pod, don't tear into one on my account.
John

 

[jimmysisson]

Maybe if you sent him one he'd open it up.
Jim

 

[NewToy]

Maybe if you sent him one he'd open it up.
Jim

You reckon there is an hour meter in there?

 

[charlesw]

Is there a CUT with a digital hourmeter that records other than straight clock time. I don't think so and don't care how they make it work.

It would be very simple to make a digital hourmeter register whatever you want. So why not register theoretical ideal RPM hours?

 

[Soundguy]

I also understand how time works. What I was trying to figure out, and you have obviously missed the point, is how the various mfg's determine how to calculate an hour which is 60 minutes. Are they all the same? Do their digital HM's track exactly the same as their analog varients? If you don't know just say it and go tear apart an I-Pod to help with your frustration.
John

I have no frustration.. and Ipods, in general are very hard to work on. i've repaired a few of them.

As for your question. Time counters can be made in many different ways. Everything from a digital pulse counter to a stable oscilator.. etc. Can be straight digital. or can be an analog motor/gearing setup as on a plug in non digital clock.

How does each manufacure do it? Pick up your telephone and call EACH one o f them and ask. Most of the analong dashes are calculating hours at some 'rated' rpm.. I.E. for instance.. 1 hr at 1900 rpm on my nh is going to show as 1 hr on the clock... 2 hr at 950 rpm will show as 1 hr on the clock.. etc. I'm sure each manufacture that uses tach time has their own rating rpm.

Now.. for the answer to your earlier question. RE: Do any CUT's have a digital display but show tach time vs real time.

The answer is YES

Chalanger 200 series. this covers tractors from about 23 hp up to 46 hp. They have the option of a digital dash, and the tach/meter counts tach hours.. not real time hours.

After asking a friend with a chalanger ( which i suspected did this ). I called the local dealer in our area.. Ringpower and spoke with their service tech and a salesman. Tech told me the info in black and white, and the salesman referred his quote sheet to look at the available options for the tractors and verified what the tech had said about the 200 series.


So.. is that what you were asking: I.E. Any CUT's with a digital display dash that showed tach hours vs real time hours?

Soundguy