House Burned Up -- Anyone Know about Insurance?

[CurlyDave]

If the house has been vacant, up for sale, and then suffered a loss, insurance company may be suspicious. Unless the insurance company was notified that the property was vacant and they continued to insure, they might also raise issues about that, too.

Some things I didn't mention.

I did tell my agent that I was moving and asked about how to get a refund on insurance once house was sold, so they were notified. That part at least is under control, because they agree I have coverage.

Second, there is no need for suspicion, they know the cause. Real estate agent held an open house on Sunday. Was burning candles to create a nice ambience. Forgot to blow out candles, the big ones 5-6 inches tall, bigger around than a beer can. She admitted this to the fire department.

Insurance company sent in an investigator. He pinpointed the start of the fire to an area on the kitchen counter about 12" x 24". I was with him when he did the investigation, and after he showed me this, I emailed him a picture of the kitchen which showed three candles in the exact spot where the fire originated. From the picture he identified the brand of the candles. Amazing piece of detective work. Bought more, similar ones, and filmed them burning until they burned out. A new candle will last 100 hours, the ones in the picture were ~ 1/2 burned. Open house was Sunday afternoon, fire was Tuesday evening. Just about 50 hours.

The insurance company has already notified the real estate agent they are suing her and her insurance company.

Fortunately, I had been in Oregon for 2 weeks before the fire, DW had been in Oregon for 5 days before the fire.

They already know the fire was accidental, not criminal, but that the real estate agent may very well be liable for not blowing out the candles.

 

[jinjimbob]

When I was selling my house my insurance dropped me as it was a vacant house, the only way for me to get insurance was through the state itself. Cost a lot more.

 

[ctpres]

Record conversations and phone calls! TX law says only one party to a conversation needs to be aware that it is being recorded. What is CA? If both parties must be aware simply begin each phone call or conversation with "My memory isn't as good as it used to be so I am recording this conversation." With all storm damage around here the pros are coming out of the woodwork. They are working on fees based on what they get ABOVE your best effort. Those with engineering support are also doing better. Good luck.

 

[Doc_Bob]

Communicate by certified letter.
Save everything.
Be polite and cooperative.
Read the policy carefully. And have a friend who has no emotional involvement help you. A clear head is worth a lot of money.
Call your State for advice.

Finally, get a consult with a lawyer. Two hours of a consult can be worth a lot. But come to the consult prepared and don't get someone who has no experience with your issue. Don't ask a divorce attorney for help.

Think of the tax consequences. If the house is worth 150 k and you only get 100k, then you have a write off. <- just an example.

Bob

 

[Paddy]

Dave,

Point 2, getting the estimates of clean up and repair vs. to knock down and rebuild will settle that issue. fire clean up is not cheap. In any case, even if the repair is slightly less than rebuilding, you could take the cash for rebuilding. Also, a paid assement from a sructural engineer stating the home is a total loss will have more merrit than her opinion. Take the engineers report to someone above her. It is common for insurance agents to drag their feet/discourage full settlement.

Do you have a photo?

Patrick T

 

[Doc_Bob]

Dave,

Point 2, getting the estimates of clean up and repair

SERVPRO - Your Cleanup and Restoration Company for Fire, Water, and Mold Damage Situations

Expensive.
Bob

 

[EddieWalker]

Dave,

Sorry to hear of your loss and the hassle that you are going through. I was very interested in the cause of the fire and how it happened. Thanks for sharing that information, it supports my position against candles. Luckily my wife has discovered fake candles with batteries in them that have the same "flicker" look that she likes.

My experience with insurance companies is mostly as the contractor coming in after the client has been paid. Usually it's weather or water damage that I deal with. No experience with fire damage. In the jobs that I've had, the common theme is that they come in with a low ball offer that is insulting, and then go through the game of paying what they should. In the jobs that I've had, the clients have always been paid more then what it would take to return the bathroom or kitchen back to what it was before the accident. I'm either more affordable then what they use for a scale, or they just assume that the contractor is going to charge more then what it takes. Either way, they have extra cash for upgrades.

I wish I knew what companies they've used, but they are jobs that I've done that sort of blend into each other. Small details that I don't remember.

From what I understand, the longer you hold out on accepting payment, the more they are willing to pay. They tend to like a quick upfront dollar amount to get rid of you and move on, and then when the "game" begins, they start playing with all the reasons not to pay you the full amount that you are entitled. After that part of the game is over with, they start to offer a more realistic amount. It's just a matter of playing the game and being able wait until they get to that point when they are forced by law to have a settlement. When this happens is unclear, but there is a time limit and the longer you wait, the more pressure they are under to resolve the claim.

I don't know of anybody who hired a lawyer and don't really know what you would get from a lawyer unless you have to file a lawsuit against the company. While they are negotiating with you, regardless of how frustrating it is, there's probably not allot that a lawyer will be able to accomplish except cost you money and maybe put the company in a more adversarial position.

One thing to consider is if their delay is causing additional damage to your home from the weather. If you can document mold or mildew growth as a result of the this, you can add to your claim that the remaining structure is not safe for habitation.

Like mentioned already, rebuilding with existing walls and structure is always going to be more expensive then building from the ground up. Are you getting bids from contractors on the rebuild and submitting them to the adjuster? I've had to submit bids, and when doing so for insurance claims, they are always done so according to their requirements. Like I said earlier, I can always do the job for less then they end up paying, but allot of that is because I do things my way when the work begins. If you get paid for the work to be done their way, rebuild with the existing damaged structure that will pass code, I think that you should be able to take that dollar amount and build a brand new house, with all new lumber for less. Of course, not knowing the extent of the damage, I might be totally off here, but in the remodels and additions that I've done, it's always cheaper to tear down what's there and start from new.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[ray66v]

The insurance company has already notified the real estate agent they are suing her and her insurance company.

They already know the fire was accidental, not criminal, but that the real estate agent may very well be liable for not blowing out the candles.

The real estate agent is of course, liable, and surely has insurance that will eventually be paying the tab. Since that is the case, you don't have to deal with State Farm, you can go directly to the agents insurance company, and try dealing with them. If they are easier to get along with, tell your Co. thanks, but no thanks. This is more often done with automobiles, usually if your not at fault, you use the other co. for the claim. Sometimes it is the simplest way to avoid a headache. I will likely take longer to settle. So, of course, you need to consider the financial aspect of going that route. If you can also bankroll the job yourself, you have that option, while they drag out settling.

If you get a couple of contractors to estimate the cost of savaging some of the old house is higher, your S. F. adjuster will likely come around.

Merry Christmas anyway.

 

[2manyrocks]

We used to have a coffee table with a burn mark in it from when my wife was burning a candle in some decorative glass and the glass shattered. We now have a permanent ban on burning candles in the house.

A few random thoughts...

I suppose you could always get contractor bids from good contractors, not knotheads, to rebuild your house like it was and then take them to the adjuster.

If they rebuild using the charred lumber, I'd argue that you'll end up with a house that doesn't have the fair market value of your old one. I wouldn't knowingly buy a house that was rebuilt from the charred lumber. What bank would finance it? For this, you might want to talk with an appraiser. I'd be arguing that whatever money she thinks she is saving comes at your expense and you'll end up with a house that either won't sell or will sell at such a discount to fair market value that it's unacceptable.

I'd be careful in dealing with your realtor because she now has a conflict in saying what your house was really worth.

If it's California, maybe there is some environmental argument that you can't expose a human being to the charred materials inside a house. Then I wonder what the code officials would say. They are supposed to require building with graded and stamped lumber to assure the structual integrity of the building. So now some engineer is going to give an opinion on the structual integrity of charred wood? Is he going to personally examine and pass on every stick of wood? What is that going to cost? And the codes guy is supposed to rely on that? What is the statute of limitations on suing the engineer if he's wrong?

 

[charlz]

Call the main office/corporate and complain, see if you can get a new adjuster assigned.

Worse case: are any of the local news channels in CA still doing the 'on your side' stuff where you can sic a reporter on the insurance company? They usually love these stories where some greedy corporation is sticking it to some unfortunate person. Poor guy lives out of state, somebody's careless mistake, now he has to spend a bunch of time and money traveling, phone calls etc. trying to get his insurance company to do what he paid them for etc. etc. I would think CA would be pretty sensitive to this stuff after the last few years of fires etc.