House generator questions...second thoughts on whole house system.

[Bullwinkle123]

What type of generator do you h
ave. $600 for maint sounds real high.

Like I said, mine is an over the top setup. I have a 45KW industrial Kohler setup for a somewhat compound like set of buildings. The price for service has been rising, and you have to factor in years with bigger tasks, like changing coolant and such. Though my service place really ripped me off charging me $150 for a new battery this year. I'm a bit peeved about that. Anyway, my skimping is that I only do service every other year, so $600 every two years isn't horrible. No doubt I could cheap out if I serviced it myself, but I have enough other things to spend time on, and nothing so critical as my generator.

The upside is that my life is completely unchanged on generator power. I can run anything I please, including my welder.

 

[grsthegreat]

Ya, I’ve installed several 45kw in compounds. Those things suck gas. ( I also installed a 48 kw for a customer. The 48 runs at 1800 rpm.the 45 at 3600 rpm. Man…what a major drop in noise. I was real surprised.)but not as much as a 130kw lp unit i serviced years ago. That pig sucked down 22 GPH of propane . It ran on liquid propane too as I recall. This nutter wanted everything in his house on, including heated towel racks. He could care less about propane use. Has several underground tanks.

 

[ultrarunner]

My 125 kW prime Cummins turbo diesel fuel consumptions varies a lot depending on load...

For years a jobber would top me off every year under contract but when we really needed fuel during the utility shut off was told it would be a week maybe more...

Contracts don't mean much when stuff hits the fan...

Topped off yesterday four 5 gallon jugs at a time... 6 trips at $4.89 gallon.

Not diesel red but what you gonna do...?

 

[check]

Yup. Whole house is the way to go. Have a propane powered 17kw Kohler with transfer switch. Very quiet and comes on immediately when the power goes out.

Can check on the tank online, so don’t have to worry about running out of propane.

 

[zzvyb6]

I think its a mistake to use the past outage history as a predictor of future generation needs. Electric cars will overload the capacity, reliability and durability of our power grid. I'm expecting monthly if not weekly outages, even just for 1 hour or so to have rolling black-outs. Stash fuel, cash, and ammo for a likely coming Depression, fueled by inflation, greed, and political bullies.

 

[grsthegreat]

My 125 kW prime Cummins turbo diesel fuel consumptions varies a lot depending on load...

For years a jobber would top me off every year under contract but when we really needed fuel during the utility shut off was told it would be a week maybe more...

Contracts don't mean much when stuff hits the fan...

Topped off yesterday four 5 gallon jugs at a time... 6 trips at $4.89 gallon.

Not diesel red but what you gonna do...?

$4.89 yeiks

 

[MoKelly]

We looked at a whole house generator.

Unfortunately, the electric meter and gas meter are on completely different sides of the house - as far away as possible. The two meters are 165 feet apart going across back yard.

The cost to install was astronomical.

Obviously the person who built the house had no intention of ever installing a generator.

MoKelly

 

[grsthegreat]

That’s where adding a propane tank is way cheaper than piping gas

 

[3Ts]

We have a 22kw Generac with a buried 1000 gal tank. Is it cost effective for the very few outages of short duration we have? No! However, when we lived in Florida, we were without power for 9 days and used a portable and extension cords for the refrigerator and freezer. We are getting older and I do not want to do that again and the heat and humidity will be very difficult for us to deal with as we get older.

As for the maintenance costs, we pay a company to check it out every year with oil changes, etc. for $225 each trip (they're an hour away). The battery is 4 years old, they wanted to change it out every 3 years at $115 each. My feeling is that if the battery needs to changed out every 3 years, it needs a different brand. I'll have them change it out at 5 years for the $115. I checked the cost of the battery at Wal-Mart and it was about $100 (if I get it at a major city it's half that).

 

[MGH PA]

Thanks for all of the various replies! Certainly a lot to consider. Now if I could just find that money tree somewhere...

 

[RalphVa]

So when we build our house two years ago, we had full intentions of putting in a whole house backup system in the future. As such, we installed two Generac Automatic Transfer Switches (to carry the two 200A panels). We have an all electric house (minus the gas fireplace) with Geothermal heating and cooling (with electric strip backup). We live in a rural area, but not in the middle of nowhere. I even purchased a 500gal propane tank and buried it last fall with anticipation of a future generator. Long story, short, since living here for two years, we have only lost power twice, and ironically, it was in the last month and a half. It was inconvenient, but I'm starting to question whether I want to invest the $8000 I was quoted to install a Generac 24kw system. I get the convenience issue, but it comes at a premium.

I'm not an electrician, but I got to thinking...could a portable unit be setup to work with my ATS? I don't need an auto start generator, I would still be fine going out and firing the generator up myself, but since I already have about $600 into the automatic transfer switches, I would like to utilize them if I can. I understand in this situation, I wouldn't be able to run my geothermal system, but if I can power some lights, the well pump, and the freezer/fridge, it might be ok in the off chance that we lose power.

Am I nuts? I already am 1/2-3/4 of the way setup for a whole home system, so part of me also thinks I should finish it out, but it's hard to justify the $$ the more I think about it.

We've a 12.5 kw Isuzu diesel generator that powers the whole house except for 2nd hot water tank, swimming pool, carriage house and 4 ton heat pump. It powers pretty much everything else, including the clothes washer and drier. Our house is all electric.

I'd keep the backup strips off generator. The geothermal unit could be on generator. It probably makes your hot water. I'd just go manually turn the breakers off on the backup strips when generator comes on.

Our electrician that installed the Isuzu shuffled breakers all about between our two 200 amp panels.

Your fuel usage will correspond to your AVERAGE kw usage. For instance our average usage is 2 to 2.5 kw. The 12.5 kw generator only uses about 0.25 gph.

 

[MGH PA]

Just confirmed I don't have Intellistart on my Geo System, so that will be at least another $400 to add on to be able to use a generator. I might just forget it for now

 

[MoKelly]

That’s where adding a propane tank is way cheaper than piping gas

True. Unfortunately, this is our city house and a propane tank is not allowed.

We have a nice whole house propane generator at the farm.

Oh well - we need it more at the farm than in the city anyway. At least historically.

MoKelly

 

[TheMan419]

Nice thing is that there are so many options. We had a portable from our time living in the city. When we moved into the country house we had to upgrade the panel from 100 amp to 200 amp. So we had them wire up the generator panel at the same time. The marginal cost of that was only the cost of the panel and the parts really.

So that is what we are using now.

If I had the $ no question I would go whole house. We have plentiful natural gas here so that is the way I would go.

 

[JasperFrank]

I imagine in the near future, EVs will have the ability to back feed a small house. Or at least, once the EV market is mature, there will be very inexpensive used battery packs, repurposed for home backup systems. Things are a changing all the time. For us, 8K, would make for a substantial contribution to our bi-annual, over-seas, travel fund.
Wife and I have very different attitudes over power outages. She hates them, I rejoice in them and to me it's fun to "turn off the world" for a while and camp at home and re-discover what you need and don't need. Get out the oil lamps! Fill the bath tubs with water. Cook on the wood stove, used up our emergency food stash, etc...
With a wood stove and a 4400 Watt, 120 Volt only, gasoline powered Gen, with out a transfer switch and running extension cords, we've done fine - In my mind, even during the longest outage, which was 11 days, two years ago, during an ice storm, things were comfortable and the gen powered the lights; DSL router and charged the phones/computers and ran the fridge. Sponge bath from the heated water on the wood stove. What more do you need?

 

[LouNY]

I can remember the first house my parents had,
I don't need or have any desire to go back to sponge baths from water heated on the stove top.
Having to go out in the cold or rain to an out house
Only a a pair of twenty amp fuses for the main power in.
No thank you I like and enjoy my comfort and warmth,
no need to scrape the frost of the windows to see out,
hot water out the tap,
good lighting,
all the luxuries.

My mother and father both could remember when commercial electricity became available.
Indoor plumbing and water under pressure.
My father on the farm they had a Delco power plant for DC electricity for the barn lighting
and a vacuum pump for milking machines.
They didn't get electricity till the mid or late 30's,
and never looked back or wanted to.

 

[Popgadget]

I have 22kw Generac with a 500 gallon propane tank. It runs the well pump and Geothermal systems with no problem. Also have a 25kw PTO generator as a back up to that, or for in the case that a propane refill is delayed.
Being remote, and entirely dependent on electricity to maintain a normal life, I have no regrets whatsoever about going this route.
I would suggest the the OP install the generator as originally planned.

 

[MGH PA]

Just an update. I placed my order today. Looking like maybe February for installation, maybe earlier. I couldn't see investing in the two ATS's only to let them sit idly by. I will post an update when it's installed. Thanks for all of the input!

 

[grsthegreat]

one thing alot of people dont take into account is water and livestock. wells take good, reliable power as to not damage motors. animals cant go very long without water.

 

[Doughknob]

Certainly not needed. depends on how much one worries. Financially not worth it. But if peace of mind means more to one than money, it could be worth it.