MDNY
Platinum Member
Rob & others, one last thing. There is a hybrid cable out there that is: speaker wire, CAT5 (or higher now), Cable TV, Fiber Optic and Alarm wire all in one. Makes it cheaper and easier.
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- Thread starter RobS
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StoneHeartFarm
Veteran Member
<font color=blue> there is a hybrid cable out there</font color=blue>
Wish I'd known that a year ago. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
SHF
Wish I'd known that a year ago. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif
SHF
MDNY
Platinum Member
Sorry about that. A co-worker of mine was telling me about it two years ago when he was building. My builder is not familiar with the IEEE standards for home networking so I will have to get him some info on wiriing or just have him run the wire and leave it alone so I can have it punched down.
OP
RobS
Super Member
We're still waiting for the final numbers as well, but we've been through everything so many times we agreed to proceed.
I just read that running data and phone in the same Cat5 bundle can lead to data corruption due to high ringer voltages. Any truth to that? At this point we're planning on home-running each location with seperate data, phone and video cables. The cables are relatively inexpensive (compared to the cost of un-sticking a concrete mixer /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif ).
I'd have to agree with you, if we were getting those kind of answers out of our builder we may be looking elsewhere as well. Good luck and keep us posted /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I just read that running data and phone in the same Cat5 bundle can lead to data corruption due to high ringer voltages. Any truth to that? At this point we're planning on home-running each location with seperate data, phone and video cables. The cables are relatively inexpensive (compared to the cost of un-sticking a concrete mixer /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif ).
I'd have to agree with you, if we were getting those kind of answers out of our builder we may be looking elsewhere as well. Good luck and keep us posted /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
markcg2000
Gold Member
It's possible the ringer might annoy your data, but not likely with CAT5. Besides, it's only a couple of rings and the data will retransmit if it gets corrupted.
kyoders
Silver Member
Rob,
All Ethernet running on twisted pair uses differential signalling. The tight twist of the pairs just about guarantees that any voltage induced on one line of the pair will also be induced on the other, making the difference between the lines within a pair stay pretty consistent. What is more likely is that the ring voltage could be fully induced onto a data pair, and some hubs might object to that (i.e. they may fry. I've seen it happen, although there was no way to know what induced the voltage on it). That being said, I would still not do it.
The problem is at the termination point. How do you break out pair 1 (for voice) from pair 2&3 (data)? There used to be some companies making adapters for this, but it was dubious whether they actually met cat 5 standards or not. And they weren't cheap. If you attempt to do this yourself, you are guaranteed to violate cat 5. Does that mean it won't work? Not necessarily, but you never know. Where I used to work, we had all kinds of bizzare things work fine, and some that were done to the letter that wouldn't (we had one run of cat 5 that had some kind of junk being induced on it, and it wouldn't work with our hubs). Even if it works, without using the pre-fab adapters, you end up with a mess at your outlet.
Stick with your original plan and run separate voice and data lines to each location. In fact, the last time I looked, the 568 standard called for two data and one voice to each location. Given how cheap the stuff has gotten over the years, why not do it? The 10 years that 568 was supposed to allow for are rapidly disappearing. And definitely do home runs, and terminate at a 110 block or cat 5 patch panel. This makes it incredibly easy to route just about anything to just about anywhere.
Kevin
All Ethernet running on twisted pair uses differential signalling. The tight twist of the pairs just about guarantees that any voltage induced on one line of the pair will also be induced on the other, making the difference between the lines within a pair stay pretty consistent. What is more likely is that the ring voltage could be fully induced onto a data pair, and some hubs might object to that (i.e. they may fry. I've seen it happen, although there was no way to know what induced the voltage on it). That being said, I would still not do it.
The problem is at the termination point. How do you break out pair 1 (for voice) from pair 2&3 (data)? There used to be some companies making adapters for this, but it was dubious whether they actually met cat 5 standards or not. And they weren't cheap. If you attempt to do this yourself, you are guaranteed to violate cat 5. Does that mean it won't work? Not necessarily, but you never know. Where I used to work, we had all kinds of bizzare things work fine, and some that were done to the letter that wouldn't (we had one run of cat 5 that had some kind of junk being induced on it, and it wouldn't work with our hubs). Even if it works, without using the pre-fab adapters, you end up with a mess at your outlet.
Stick with your original plan and run separate voice and data lines to each location. In fact, the last time I looked, the 568 standard called for two data and one voice to each location. Given how cheap the stuff has gotten over the years, why not do it? The 10 years that 568 was supposed to allow for are rapidly disappearing. And definitely do home runs, and terminate at a 110 block or cat 5 patch panel. This makes it incredibly easy to route just about anything to just about anywhere.
Kevin
markcg2000
Gold Member
That's true. I was thinking of my house (>100 y/o); tough to get wires through those huge post&beams, then the plaster /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif. If it were all open, I would definately run 2-each 4-pair CAT5 and video to each jack.
MDNY
Platinum Member
Rob,
Thanks for the support, I am giving them just a little more time, before I drop it and find a new builder. The wife and my's biggest fear is this is how we get treated during the process. Meaning no return calls, who is the POC on the project etc. They seemed very interested in the begining, but have dropped the ball. I am in sales and if I did my proposals like they do I would be buying a card board box to live in. At any rate I gave them an Excel file breaking out the upgrades and how I need the info done, still nothing yet.
Kyoders,
I do agree with you that running individual home runs is best especially since the CAT5 PVC is about $50 per 1000' (depending the supplier). I may just op to have them run individual lines, supply the boxes and jacks for them to install so I can get the (1) Data, (1) Voice, (1) Video, with a possible second video run but not attached. I can coordinate it in the basement with a patch panel to house it all in a modular form. Being in the IT business I can get it at cost and help the builder do it correcty (read: hire one of my techs to do it). I tell my customers, I can design you LAN (and WAN) but I do not configure for a reason. I'm not an engineer, just a techical Sales Rep who has attention to detail.
With CAT5E pushing out and CAT6 moving in and FO Cable being so cheap I may run some of that too, just not sure yet.
Thanks for the support, I am giving them just a little more time, before I drop it and find a new builder. The wife and my's biggest fear is this is how we get treated during the process. Meaning no return calls, who is the POC on the project etc. They seemed very interested in the begining, but have dropped the ball. I am in sales and if I did my proposals like they do I would be buying a card board box to live in. At any rate I gave them an Excel file breaking out the upgrades and how I need the info done, still nothing yet.
Kyoders,
I do agree with you that running individual home runs is best especially since the CAT5 PVC is about $50 per 1000' (depending the supplier). I may just op to have them run individual lines, supply the boxes and jacks for them to install so I can get the (1) Data, (1) Voice, (1) Video, with a possible second video run but not attached. I can coordinate it in the basement with a patch panel to house it all in a modular form. Being in the IT business I can get it at cost and help the builder do it correcty (read: hire one of my techs to do it). I tell my customers, I can design you LAN (and WAN) but I do not configure for a reason. I'm not an engineer, just a techical Sales Rep who has attention to detail.
With CAT5E pushing out and CAT6 moving in and FO Cable being so cheap I may run some of that too, just not sure yet.
MossRoad
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Rob, I'd recommend running seperate voice and data. And punch down all 8 wires at each end. It might seem like a waste of 6 wires if you use it for a phone location, however, as stated by others, the wire is so inexpensive that it doesn't matter.
Beautiful weekend, eh?
Beautiful weekend, eh?
dmccarty
Super Star Member
MDNY,
Sounds like time to find a new builder.... /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
I have been looking off and on for a builder for 10 years. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I think we finally found one. And then it was by dumb luck. We met
with him yesterday for the sixth time. He has given us some rough
questimates on what it would cost to do two floor plans, actually its
one house done in two phases. We and the builder have spent at
least 16 hours talking about things during the six meetings. I'm
sure he has spent at least a couple more hours looking at our
sketches and figuring out the prices. His prices are coming in
about where I would expect for what he is pricing.
I figure I'm going to be "married" to the builder for a year. I had better
get along with the builder otherwise its going to be hell down the road.
And then I'm left with what the builder did. If I'm not happy with the
builder up front its only going to get worse. I've met some builders, who
close friends worked with, that I would not let build a dog house. And I
have met a couple that seem real good and have built good houses. I
know one builder that just did some real good work on a friends house.
The quality is top notch. But I won't use him since he said a few things
to me in passing that I did not like. What he said might be incosequential
to some but he lost a commission and does not know why.
I hope my builder is as good as I think he is! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Time will tell....
My Rambling Two Cents! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Dan
Sounds like time to find a new builder.... /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
I have been looking off and on for a builder for 10 years. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I think we finally found one. And then it was by dumb luck. We met
with him yesterday for the sixth time. He has given us some rough
questimates on what it would cost to do two floor plans, actually its
one house done in two phases. We and the builder have spent at
least 16 hours talking about things during the six meetings. I'm
sure he has spent at least a couple more hours looking at our
sketches and figuring out the prices. His prices are coming in
about where I would expect for what he is pricing.
I figure I'm going to be "married" to the builder for a year. I had better
get along with the builder otherwise its going to be hell down the road.
And then I'm left with what the builder did. If I'm not happy with the
builder up front its only going to get worse. I've met some builders, who
close friends worked with, that I would not let build a dog house. And I
have met a couple that seem real good and have built good houses. I
know one builder that just did some real good work on a friends house.
The quality is top notch. But I won't use him since he said a few things
to me in passing that I did not like. What he said might be incosequential
to some but he lost a commission and does not know why.
I hope my builder is as good as I think he is! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Time will tell....
My Rambling Two Cents! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Dan
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