How can you make any money selling bermuda hay?

Alan L. · Apr 11, 2004

Fertilizer cost alone seems out of whack. Everything I read says bermuda hay needs 46 pounds of nitrogen per ton of hay. Thats 2 round bales that will sell for $50 to $70. The fertilizer alone, if you use 13-13-13 (which you of course wouldn't use after inital planting) is about $14.50 for 100 pounds, or $51 to make 46 pounds (46/13*$14.50).

I suppose high nitrogen fertiler might be cheaper, but 13-13-13 is all I have priced, for the initial planting. I'm still trying to figure out how much to use. Don't have time for a soil test, if I want to start it this year.

I am doing common bermuda with seed, as I don't know how to do sprigs and don't have the equipment to sprig a hybrid, and haven't found any one who wants to fool with my measley 8 to 10 acres broken up by about 15 mesquite and cedar trees, a road and 1-acre tank (pond).

Anyway, just in the process of figuring out how much fertilzer is needed, it seems awfully expensive considering potential revenues. The only reason I am doing it is to maintain my ag exemption for property tax, otherwise I'd just keep the pasture I have now.

cowboydoc · Apr 12, 2004

Anyway, just in the process of figuring out how much fertilzer is needed, it seems awfully expensive considering potential revenues.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Welcome to the world of farming Alan! High inputs and low return. Story of a farmer/ranchers life. Although prices have been good of late if they stay there. As far as what you need I would get a soil sample first. You have to start there. If you don't you really are just guessing and probably throwing money away.

Alan L. · Apr 12, 2004

cowboydoc, I know getting a soil analysis is good advice, and I may try to get it done anyway, at the cost of getting my bermuda planted late. Thanks.

cowboydoc · Apr 12, 2004

Alan,

If you already have pasture why not just get a couple feeder cattle and run on it and sell them when the grass quits growing in the fall. You might not make alot but you won't lose anything either.

Robert_in_NY · Apr 12, 2004

That sounds good, also saves him a lot by not having to buy/rent any hay equipment.

ljh2 · Apr 12, 2004

doc,
Assuming of course that he already has a fence and an available water supply. Otherwise it might keep him in the red. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Robert_in_NY · Apr 12, 2004

Putting up a fence will be considerably cheaper then buying the equipment needed to hay the land. Drilling a well might cost as much as getting the ground brought up to specs for good hay. After the initial investment he is set to raise beef. With hay he has the constant investment to maintain the soil. It will come down to what he wants to do. Set a few animals on his land and let them raise themselves, or go out there and play in the nice warm sun getting the hay in. (I would go the hay route as I have the equipment and if I didn't I do have access to it).

Only downside to the animals is that you have to make sure they stay healthy which is not hard if you keep an eye on them and can notice if anything changes in their pattern or behavior.

Alan L. · Apr 12, 2004

Well, this pasture happens to be our front "yard". I have no problem with raising cows, I've done it on a small scale before. However, I don't yet have a fence, and I'm not really crazy about the cows getting in the tank (pond) and muddying it up, as I know cows like to do in the hot sun.

Let me tell the other thing that bothers me. I get attached to the calves and feel bad about taking them away from the Mommas and selling them for slaughter. I did it a long time ago and didn't like it, although I eat as much beef as the next guy. I've thought about horses, but they seem to be alot more trouble and require a lot more care.

When it comes down to it, I'm just trying to keep my ag exemption. If I don't make a profit its OK, I just don't see how anyone can make a profit at it with the cost of fertilzer the way it is.

I guess I could go ahead and plant the bermuda, and run cows on it at some time in the future if I'm of a mind too.

Thanks for the information guys.

Junkman · Apr 12, 2004

can you lease it out and still keep the exemption? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

riptides · Apr 13, 2004

Can you plant some government program crop? I seem to recall a few years back, some man in black offered to plant soybeans, due to some corn issue in our area. Weird.

Rumor or factoid? It was suppose to help both parties.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Egon · Apr 13, 2004

Cattle on the front lawn. Makes me think of barefoot walks and pies that aren't made from apples.

Just as a suggestion have you ever though of reintroducing some tall grass prairie and collecting seeds for selling. It would also make excellent hay if not cut too frequently.

The flowers also look nice.

Egon

cowboydoc · Apr 13, 2004

In order to go into the govt. programs you usually have to have a crop production record.

Alan L. · Apr 13, 2004

Egon Mrs. Alan L wasn't too happy about the wildflowers being disked under for the bermuda, but I convinced her that it was necessary that we have a crop.

fishman · Apr 14, 2004

Alan,

This is exactly why funding Texas state government with property taxes is such a dumb idea. Not to point fingers just at you, because I know lots of people in your situation, but granting an ag exemption on 10 acres is silly. Not only that, but you can't get a wildlife exemption on such a small plot of ground, and you can only get one if the land has already been on an ag exemption. So lots of people in my area have fenced their 10 or 20 acres and loaded them up with goats. Problem is, this area is pristine, native, in it's original state. You got to screw it up in order to save taxes. Crazy what people will do to save a few bucks.

I have a homestead exemption on my house and 10 acres (maximum amount of land allowed). That's a dumb loophole too, but I'd be stupid not to do it. Maybe you should check into that as well.

Hope you don't think I'm coming down on you, I'm not. Just frustrated by a tax system that is outdated and inefficient. I'd much rather have an income tax or personal property tax (TX has neither . . . unless you own a business then you pay personal property tax).

Junkman · Apr 14, 2004

( ............. Just frustrated by a tax system that is outdated and inefficient. I'd much rather have an income tax or personal property tax (TX has neither . . . unless you own a business then you pay personal property tax). )

Move to Connecticut, we have a personal income tax, a personal property tax on everything from your horse, goat, sheep, tractor, snowmobile, boat, trailer, stamp collection, tools, etc.. They also have a tax on business for personal property and inventory. We also have real estate taxes on the house and land. Your April 15th state tax return is more complicated than the Federal in some instances. Now, our neighbors to the Northeast, Massachusetts, is more affectionately known as Taxachuseetts, but Connecticut has them beat hands down. We also have one of the highest gasoline taxes in the nation. The governor that gave us the income tax, well, he moved to Florida after he was out of office to avoid the taxes that he created. You have to love a guy like that.
When you die, they tax the estate also, so what you were able to keep while you were alive, they try to take away from you upon death. I believe that CT has one of the lowest death rates of all the New England states. Most people leave before they are taxed to death. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bird · Apr 15, 2004

( I'd much rather have an income tax or personal property tax )

Whew! Bite your tongue. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

fishman · Apr 15, 2004

Junkman,

Now don't get any wild ideas here. There is no way I'm coming to the east coast to avoid Texas taxes. I'm not that dumb /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

All I'm saying is that it's not a very good idea to tax wealth as opposed to income. In fact, it just plain stinks. It makes more sense to tax people as they make their living, then let you do with what's left as you wish.

For example, property taxes are double taxation (at least). You are taxed on the money you earn, taxed on the property as you own it, then taxed on the profits (if any) when you sell it.

It just makes more sense to tax you once, and get it over with. This would avoid all of these silly loopholes that people employ to save taxes.

Just blowing off a little steam here. Not trying to make any political statement or anything. My job is funded by taxes, but at least they are discretionary and they are use taxes. If someone wants to go fishing and use the state waters for their enjoyment, then they pay a small fee to do so (fishing license)

Now, I'd better get back to work. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Egon · Apr 15, 2004

Think I'd be real happy to make enough to pay the taxes.

Egon

Alan L. · Apr 15, 2004

fishman, actually I don't just have 10 acres, I have 24 acres, and if I only had one, and it was used for ag, then I feel like I am every bit as entitled to the ag exemption as the guy that has 10,000 acres. Nothing personal taken of course, but my opinion on the subject does differ from yours.

Alan L. · Apr 15, 2004

fishman, unfortunately if we have personal income tax, then the state will spend that and still won't have enough to fund all their programs, and so we will have both income and property taxes, as many states do. I don't want to get on that slipperly slope although I hate property taxes too.

If you could tell me that property taxes would disappear then I might waiver on this, but I don't believe it would happen.