Dirt Moving How do I grade rocky soil??????

[Carl Bert]

I recently cleared about 1/2 acre of my property. This soil is very rocky, a ton of small to medium stones, but also quite a few boulders. I have gotten it to the point that all the trees are down and stumps removed. All exposed boulders dug up and moved. I now have a lot of uneven, bumpy ground, with many stones peaking through. Large or small, I have no idea. What is the best way to attack this from this point?

Should I start at one corner and dig up every square foot with the BH, then use a landscapers rake to grade it. Sure it would work, but I can't imagine how long it would take?

Or can I just use a box blade, and try grading it without digging it up? But what happens when it catches a hidden boulder? Does that damage the BB or are they built strong enough to just stop the tractor, without causing damage?

And last, do I just rent a dozer and be done with it. Hate to do that, becuse of the obvious cost, and also because of the damage it will do to my property, just getting it to the newly cleared 1/2 acre.

Please Help!!!!

 

[Rustywreck]

Your property sounds very simillar to mine - rocks in every size from fist size to the size of a small car.
When I cleared for a yard/lawn, I used the FEL to dig up any rocks I could see, used a landscape rake to remove the native vegetation, called it good an planted grass.
When I cleared a spot for a garden, once the trees and stumps were dug out I used the FEL to dig the area up: dig down 1.5-2' move back a couple feet, dig again, etc.
When I encountered larger rocks I moved them out with the FEL. After it was loosened up and the largest rocks removed I used the landscape rake several times to remove the smaller rocks. I still get the occasional rock poking up in both the lawn and garden, but I know of no way to avoid them.
Using the FEL to loosen the ground up went quicker than I thought it would.
Oh, the car sized rocks, I left them and called them lawn ornaments. I have a pile of 20-30 boulders bigger than I can put my arms around.

 

[beenthere]

If me, I'd go after the larger rocks first with a pick and shovel if that is all I had (and it was 40 years ago), and a stone boat to roll the big ones on and slide them away.
But today, I'd use the forks on my FEL to pick/kick the big rocks out and the bucket to haul them away and back drag for some smoother dirt. I've never owned a BB but expect they could do a lot of good if used carefully and go at it slow.
When down to the smaller rocks (football or smaller), I'd look for a Harley Rake to windrow the rocks and leave the dirt behind.
Or, the cheapest is still the pick and shovel.

I live on the top of the terminal morraine of the last glacier 10k years ago and have had rocks to deal with all the time I've been here...since 1965. They still keep poking up out of the ground due to frost heaving.

 

[Combustix]

Go with the rake and make rows of rocks you can go back and get them with fel. Then BB till smooth. I have BB first though with the scarifiers extended all the way to get the footballs out. Then I would go back and rake again for a final clean up. Save your rock. You'll find uses for it later on

 

[Redgoatea]

I vote for the BB. I have fairly rocky ground in a few spots that I've smoothed out. I just drop the scarifiers a notch or two and take it nice and slow the first pass or two. You can break off a tip if you hit a big enough rock fast enough plus it'll throw the box up a bit and dump the dirt but that's why I go slow. Haven't broken a tip yet and the grounds nice and smooth now.

 

[davel745]

Not sure but maybe a rock bucket for the FEL. The type I am thinking about is sort of like a series of tines and the rocks stay and the dirt is sifted out

 

[Gordon Gould]

Once your big rocks are out - like you have now, I would use the BB scarifiers first. Take small bites deep as you can go. Then rake to windrows and pick up in FEL. ( Helps to have a good wife to pick the rocks while you drive the tractor ) I would keep alternating like this, scarify -rake. If it is like mine you can go for a long time before you get them all. To start I might remove every other tine on my rake if I was getting to much dirt while raking.
Then use a drag of some type to get it all smooth and you will get more rocks on top. ( I have used a pallet full of rocks or a section of chain link fence. Use anything flat and heavy. ) Rake again. Keep going like this this you are happy.
Have fun, its good tractor work and 1/2 acre should be doable.

 

[North Country]

I have a 2305 (2 fewer HP, 1200 fewer pounds) and used the BB just a couple days ago on newly cleared land. The land was already flat enough that I didn't have the scarifiers down. My goal was to just clean up the top few inches and remove softball-sized rocks that were poking above the surface. Not only did I find that some of the softballs were soccer balls, I found some hidden stumps I didn't know were there from a previous hack job. The large rocks generally wiggled a little before the BB skipped over the top. The stumps stopped the tractor dead (enough to jerk me against the seat belt) and nothing got bent. I do have a heavy duty 400lb+ BB, not the 280lb 4' ones sold at TSC for SCUTS. Go with the BB, take it easy on the throttle on the first pass while you're still "discovering," and you won't bend anything if you don't have the cheapo BB.

 

[Carl Bert]

I have a 2305 (2 fewer HP, 1200 fewer pounds) and used the BB just a couple days ago on newly cleared land. The land was already flat enough that I didn't have the scarifiers down. My goal was to just clean up the top few inches and remove softball-sized rocks that were poking above the surface. Not only did I find that some of the softballs were soccer balls, I found some hidden stumps I didn't know were there from a previous hack job. The large rocks generally wiggled a little before the BB skipped over the top. The stumps stopped the tractor dead (enough to jerk me against the seat belt) and nothing got bent. I do have a heavy duty 400lb+ BB, not the 280lb 4' ones sold at TSC for SCUTS. Go with the BB, take it easy on the throttle on the first pass while you're still "discovering," and you won't bend anything if you don't have the cheapo BB.

I actually haven't picked one up yet. My JD dealer has a 65" frontier for $860. Not sure of the weight, but its as HD as they come. I wanted to go with a 4' BB, for storage reasons, but 4' just barely covers the width of the rear tires. Is it necessary to be wider then the tires? Also, do you know of any online sites where I might be able to find a used one?

 

[Reg]

I would;
a) Put the unloaded set of turf tires on.
b) Select 2 wheel drive.
c) Put the box blade on, raise the outer rippers, lower the middle 4.

Then run it VERY SLOWLY with the blade JUST touching dirt once in a while.
I would be trying to turn up rocks, or spin the tires on ledge or big boulders if that is what I discover first.
I would also be trying to avoid getting spun around by catching the outer rippers on something immovable.
Then collect rocks, collect rocks, repeat the whole ripping, collect rocks, etc.

I might run the rototiller over it all, maybe - then collect more rocks.
Then the box blade with the rippers all up and the rear blade just a little bit lower than the front.

 

[Hughman]

I do this every weekend with a 72" BB behind a NH TC33. My box sticks out about 6-8" wider than the rear tires. Go slow! Every now and then I'll catch a big one on the outer edge of the box and it will roll up out of the ground under the box causing the rear tire to lift off the ground. It seems that what appears to be a small rock turns out to be the tip of an iceberg.

 

[North Country]

You don't have to be wider than the tires - it's a rule of thumb, just like 5hp/ft. A little more or less isn't going to make an enormous difference. My only concern about a 4ft blade on your tractor is some of the 4ft blades are built light for the smaller SCUTs and bend easily.

I got mine used off craigslist. You can get good quality new ones w/ free shipping from everythingattachments.com for a lot less than $860.

The 2wd suggestion is also a good idea, as is going uphill (if there's any grade) on your first pass. All these things will help reduce the chance of damage when you get surprised..

http://www.everythingattachments.com/Box-Blade-Box-Scraper-s/85.htm

 

[Reg]

I actually haven't picked one up yet. My JD dealer has a 65" frontier for $860. Not sure of the weight, but its as HD as they come. I wanted to go with a 4' BB, for storage reasons, but 4' just barely covers the width of the rear tires. Is it necessary to be wider then the tires? Also, do you know of any online sites where I might be able to find a used one?

Not NECESSARY, but very DESIRABLE - especially when you are working along fences or other edges.
The wider it is the better the side to side leveling and the fewer passes, as long as you take small enough bites.

I just read the other posts about possibly using a Harley rake for windrowing and final passes to seed bed.
Yes, if you want it that nice.
I would offer to bring mine and do it for you, but I'm too far away (-:

 

[Carl Bert]

You don't have to be wider than the tires - it's a rule of thumb, just like 5hp/ft. A little more or less isn't going to make an enormous difference. My only concern about a 4ft blade on your tractor is some of the 4ft blades are built light for the smaller SCUTs and bend easily.

I got mine used off craigslist. You can get good quality new ones w/ free shipping from everythingattachments.com for a lot less than $860.

The 2wd suggestion is also a good idea, as is going uphill (if there's any grade) on your first pass. All these things will help reduce the chance of damage when you get surprised..

http://www.everythingattachments.com/Box-Blade-Box-Scraper-s/85.htm

My dealer just dropped the price to $760 for the Frontier. Problem is, I'm not sure if it's too big for my tractor. He said it's 65" and weighs 500 lbs. A very solid unit. I guess I'll call Kubota tomorrow and see what they suggest. I looked at the KK on everything attachments. Also a very nice BB. It weighs about 65 lbs less then the Frontier. Ok i'll figure it out. Thanks for all the replies everyone.

 

[boggen]

others sound like they have everything cover i could think of.

something to think about possibly. i have never done it though. and have no idea in how it would work. but if your backhoe bucket has good set of long teeth on it. ((warning this might tear up your backhoe)) i might drop the backhoe bucket down with teeth into dirt but not the bucket. and take multi passes that way, ((that is if you do not have to much of an area to do)) to help bring rocks up. ((note out riggers are fully up, and FEL is off ground. and just using the teeth like the scraficers on a BB. (((WARNING, you could roll tractor doing this. more so if you hit a large rock))

but if you have a large enough area. a 3pt hitch rake. i would most likely well worth the cash and less worry about tearing up the backhoe.

==============
to state what other folks are stating in different words.

when you plant a garden, you plow and/or disc and/or use a tiller. and there are dirt clods you need to remove, so you break out the old "garden rake that has a stiff metal rake on the bottom" and pull the dirt clods all to one side.

when folks say the 3pt hitch rake. think of it as the old metal rake above. but instead of by hand, you can use the power of your tractor to do it.

when folks say using the scraficers on BB, they scraficers are better situated and in that stronger than the tines on a 3pt hitch rake. due to how they are position. so they can take more punishment before breaking / bending. and in that allow you to sink the scraficers into the ground. to help pop rocks up and out.

the BB doubles as a good way to get things Level or nice even slop clear across the area you want.

the 3pt Rake. can double is help loosening the top inch or so of dirt before you spread grass seed. then used again to work the grass seed back into the dirt a little bit.

==============
with above, the FEL and Backhoe i can do some pretty good damage pretty quickly on the 555c TLB of mine. once i get ready, i can pretty much get a line i want to follow, and work fast enough that the front bucket and out riggers for backhoe are on the ground for only a few moments before i need to move the tractor forward more. but, i also kill myself doing this. things can get rather bumpy and jerky. granted with 555c i can just pull lever and turn seat to operate backhoe, without getting off of tractor to switch to a backhoe seat. if i had to get off tractor or rather move to another seat to operate backhoe. that time and extra amount of movement could make or brake a deal. to a point were a box blade and rear rake would well be worth the cash and time and medication needed to kill the pain.

*i shouldn't be saying this out loud* but half the time i just pull lever and keep seat so it does not actually lock forward or in reverse. and just kinda streach out over the seat with one foot on throttle, while i reach for the backhoe controls. and when done with backhoe, lift out riggers a few inchs up off ground so they don't hit anything. tap the FEL joystick to raise it up. touch the shuttle shift lever. move forward. and drop the FEL to stop. twist a little bit to drop out riggers and away i go with backhoe and then just repeat. being in this position makes things quick but takes a toll on my body. and can be rather dangerous i should extremely dangerous. more so if you are not wide awake and not paying attention and even then can be very dangerous.

but beside above, i have done above a couple times, due to i didn't have a tiller on hand. and i could not get a plow or disc into the area. to basicly work the dirt to kinda till or rather plow / disc the dirt. to loosen it up. then used FEL to level things out.

if i would of been on TBN. i would of most likely bolted a 2x6 lumber to teeth of backhoe bucket. and used the 2x6 like a clean cutting edge to smooth things out before getting out the garden hand metal rakes. to put in grass seed. but awe well, the projects are done and it all looks nice.

 

[Reg]

Re-reading the original post; since it is only a 1/2 acre area some approaches, e.g. a dozer, are just not worth doing.

Certainly a lot can be done with a back hoe, which the original poster already has.
The basic back filling trick of floating the boom while pushing out with the dipper can be modified by "showing a bit of the bucket teeth" to help comb out some rocks.
I don't like the side swing leveling trick for small hoes and wouldn't do it with a 3 pt hoe without sub-frame, but I don't know what the O/P is using for a hoe.
If you come across some more big'uns no problem, you're already set up with the best tool for the job.
The area you can cover with the 180 degree arc of even a small hoe may be acceptable for a 1/2 acre lot.
Sure, you need to move around a lot, but some of that can be done with the hoe.
OK, maybe not with a 3pt hoe without sub-frame.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of a Harley rake for the final passes, 1/2 day rental would do a 1/2 acre lot EASILY.

 

[jenkinsph]

I like the Harley rake method too and feel it would be a good way to get a seedbed within a short period of time.

Getting all of the rocks out is a tough to impossible task but there are some ways around this that will work well for lawns. I till up the area about six inches deep or better and then run a rock bucket across all of it to collect the larger stuff three inch and over. Next I use a boxblade and/or landplane grader to smooth and fix the contours. Depending on how much material I have had to cut down I may retill the whole thing or just the scraped areas to make sure I have a uniform and deep seedbed. This could also be done with a Harley rake if you have one available. Use the Harley rake to windrow the rocks to pickup. I will seed heavily and run a roller over the seed to firm everything up.

My experience is that tilling the ground deep will allow the roller to push the left over rocks down and off the surface. Hard to get all the rocks out but atleast they can be pressed down out of the way. The lawn grass will grow over the small rocks and will alleviate the problem of loose rocks.

I worked over some areas this spring and planted some fescue, no rain in sight here so I have to use sprinklers for watering. Still have some cleanup and fence to replace but couldn't stand the dust and dirt any longer.


The first two pics are of an area planted the last week in April the last two pics are an area planted three weeks ago. You can still see a few rocks here but not a big problem. This is in the Rocky Mountains (we have rocks).

 

[638]

DO NOT, I repete, DO NOT, drive your tractor with the backhoe engaged with the ground! That is a recipe for disaster. There are no pressure relief valves in the backhoe hydralic system (at least not on my bx23) and you stand a good chance of bending a cylinder rod or breaking something.

 

[Carl Bert]

DO NOT, I repete, DO NOT, drive your tractor with the backhoe engaged with the ground! That is a recipe for disaster. There are no pressure relief valves in the backhoe hydralic system (at least not on my bx23) and you stand a good chance of bending a cylinder rod or breaking something.

I agree, plus I don't really see how it would work considering the tractor will be raising and lowering the BH bucket as I drive over bumps. I can see how it would work in theory if you had, say a 30" grading bucket and you were working on perfectly flat ground. But if you already had perfecly flat ground, then.............

Thanks everyone for your input, I think I will start with a box blade and take it from there. Thanks again.

 

[JohninCT]

Like others suggested get yourself a good box blade and use the rippers to soften the area up and get the smaller rocks up to the surface. Dig the larger rocks that the box blade skips over out with your backhoe. Then once everything is softened up rent a skid steer with a rockhound attachment. Like a harley rake it prepares a nice fluffy seed bed plus it PICKS UP all of the rocks into the bucket. You just dump them where you want them. A day rental should be enough to do your 1/2 acre area. Trust me, with lots of rocks to get out renting a rockhound is money well spent.