Front-End Loader How do I make a 3PH Blower work on a FEL

[dourobob]

Hi

I had posted this in Customization but now believe it should have been here under attachments. Lots of great ideas here for my project.

I have read a few threads that relate to this situation but I now need more specific details on the hydraulic part.

I have a 75" Meteor Snowblower that I have been using on my 3 PH. I believe it should be possible to run this blower attached to the FEL. Understand I need a hydraulic motor that turns at 540 RPM to run the blower and I believe I would supply hydraulic power one of two ways:
1 - from the tractor which has a 15.5 GPM pump (not sure if this is enough power)
2 - from a separate PTO driven Hydraulic Pump using a 20 - 25 gal hydraulic reservoir (this could be on a 3PH and provide balance for the front blower)

I am confident my friend the welder can fabricate the quick hitch but I need some advice on Hydraulic component sizing and sourcing.

Anyone done this and able to provide lessons learned.
Any questions that I need to ask but haven't ?
Appreciate any comments.

Bob

 

[ElDorado]

Michigan Iron has this figured out. If you go to his website he has a picture. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words. From others have said he also sounds like a reasonable guy, maybe a phone call would help.

Sounds like a good idea, turning around really doesn't thrill me. Good like, I keep watching your progress.

Matt

 

[radman1]

The hydraulics loose a lot of effeciency running a motor. You live in Canada and I assume you have significant snow. I have a Toolcat with 27 gpm hydraulic pto on the back. It doesn't have the pto power of my JD 3720 with 35 pto hp. 15 gpm won't be enough unless your snow is light and fluffy. If you going to do it, probably need a pump mounted on your rear pto. The cost of your project will increase significantly with rear pto pump, reservior, hoses to the front ect.

 

[dourobob]

Thanks for the ideas
I'll contact the Michigan Iron folks a see if they can give me some specs for Hydro pump and motor requirement on the Meteor 75.

As I already own that blower so I was hoping to adapt it for under $1000 - optimistic? maybe. Easier on my neck - without a doubt.

Bob

 

[skidsteer.ca]

The hydraulics loose a lot of efficiency running a motor. QUOTE]

I don't agree fully with this. Is 15 gpm going to wow you with its excessive power, likely not. But just as important as the flow is what maximum (relief) pressure can you run it at safely. Because 15 gpm at 3000 psi has 50% more hp then 15 gpm at 2000 psi.
Now obviously every hose, pump , motor and valve has to be rated at least as much as the pressure your relief valve is set at.

Also important in a motor circuit is flow restriction, because every lb of back pressure in the return line is a lb of wasted force consuming power on the pressure side. So big hoses and as few 90 degree fittings as possible.

You need to find your relief pressure and calculate your hp using gpm and max psi. Then yes there are going to be losses. But how much depends on how you design the system. I do think you would be happier with a larger pump.
At the same time we have skidsteers running 73" blowers on 2500 psi with 13 gpm. However they have the advantage of hydrostatic drive, and if conditions begin to overwhelm the hp of the blower setup, the operator can vary easily slow down. So it really depends on a lot of factors, how the system is designed, and what your expectations are.

I do believe 35 pto hp would provide a noticeable increase over 27 pto hp weather it is driven hydraulically or otherwise.

Also that we will see more hydraulic blowers on tractors. These pto pumps or similar wet kits would also be excellent for splitting wood or running a rough cut mower without smashing the gear box out of it.
Ken

 

[JoelD]

This is a good question, my gut instinct and someone like Waynehose would be better suited to answer, is that your tractor's pump would not have the GPM to run a motor to spin a blower, I'm thinking you need something like skidsteer flow rate.

We'll here is what some retailers of skid steer blowers list:

78" Standard Flow Snow Blower, 14-21 GPM Range:

Flow Rates - 14-21 GPM

Operating Range 1800 psi - 3000 psi

Two stage hydraulic blower throws snow up to 45'

Electrically Controlled poly-lined chute and deflector

High-volume 25" shroud opening provides excellent visibility

Replaceable wear-resistant Pacal steel tapered wear edge

Skid shoes are adjustable

Attaches quickly to most skid-steer loader brands

Weight - 703lbs.

Therefore I'm thinking the prior posters have it pretty much nailed. Your tractor will probably barely run it. You'd have to run a PTO pump (those things are not cheap) and then hook up a motor to the blower housing.

Would be nice if you could run some sort of driveshaft from the front of the motor and then belt drive from there like yard tractors.

Mechanical maybe cheaper, but not sure if easier or not.

Joel

 

[skidsteer.ca]

Well he has 15.5 gpm so if his system pressure is 2000 psi he has 21 hp, it is 2500 psi he has 27 hp and if its 3000 he has 32 hp drive the blower.

If he puts on a rear pto pump at 25 gpm and setsthe pressure at 2500 psi he has 43 hp assuming his pto hp is higher then this. If his pump motor and valve are rated for 3000 psi he could have 51 hp. It all depends on how far the snow needs to fly.
I firmly believe the rear pto pump would not cost any more then a driveshaft system and could have some other possible uses.

Figures courtesy of the surplus center.

Ken

 

[dourobob]

This is great and I feel I am narrowing in on a solution.
The tractor I am hoping to buy is a Kioti DK35SE HST. Not sure yet what the PSI of the pump is - will chat with the dealer on Monday - but I think it might make sense to start with a connection from auxillary Hydraulics and see how that works. If I deed more juice then I could add a PTO pump - I would try to make sure the hydraulic lines would work with either set up.

Very exciting.
Not ready for snow quite yet but hope I will be before I need to be.

Bob

 

[pat32rf]

I am wondering if your PTO is driven off the hydraulic circuit that drives your HST tranny or if there is a staight thru PTO driveshaft.
If its driven off the HST, then you might be able to get a "power beyond" kit similar to the JD units and use it for the blower, because the PTO pump won't generate any more power than whatever sources the PTO power.
Are you near P'boro or am I thinking of another town?

 

[radman1]

The hydraulics loose a lot of efficiency running a motor. QUOTE]

I don't agree fully with this. Is 15 gpm going to wow you with its excessive power, likely not. But just as important as the flow is what maximum (relief) pressure can you run it at safely. Because 15 gpm at 3000 psi has 50% more hp then 15 gpm at 2000 psi.
Now obviously every hose, pump , motor and valve has to be rated at least as much as the pressure your relief valve is set at.

Also important in a motor circuit is flow restriction, because every lb of back pressure in the return line is a lb of wasted force consuming power on the pressure side. So big hoses and as few 90 degree fittings as possible.

You need to find your relief pressure and calculate your hp using gpm and max psi. Then yes there are going to be losses. But how much depends on how you design the system. I do think you would be happier with a larger pump.
At the same time we have skidsteers running 73" blowers on 2500 psi with 13 gpm. However they have the advantage of hydrostatic drive, and if conditions begin to overwhelm the hp of the blower setup, the operator can vary easily slow down. So it really depends on a lot of factors, how the system is designed, and what your expectations are.

I do believe 35 pto hp would provide a noticeable increase over 27 pto hp weather it is driven hydraulically or otherwise.

Also that we will see more hydraulic blowers on tractors. These pto pumps or similar wet kits would also be excellent for splitting wood or running a rough cut mower without smashing the gear box out of it.
Ken

I have run hydraulic rotary brush mowers, finish mowers, trenchers, PHDs, brush cutters, tillers etc on large frame skid steers and on my TC. Most of the hydraulic flows vary from 20-28 gpm at 3000-3300 psi. Much higher outputs than most CUTS can do and higher than most all utility tractors. (My 125 hp tractor puts out 29 gpm and my large 245hp ag tractor 50 gpm.) Most tractors will have psi closer to 2500-2700. Nearly every attachment of similar size will perform better on a pto driven tractor which has much lower engine hp. A pto driven diesel engine will develop more torque and hp as the rpm of the engine slows down from recommended pto speed. A hydraulic motor has max hp at max flow. Any drop in flow as the attachments gets more work/resistance, immediately results in a drop in hydraulic motor pto. This is why a direct drive/pto CUT with 30 pto will out perform the some hydraulic motor with same pto hp. It would take flow rates in the 40-50 gpm to make me happy with the power characteristics of skid steer attachments to equal my CUTs pto.