Front-End Loader How do I make a 3PH Blower work on a FEL

[dourobob]

Bob
The only issue with going to a large flow pump later is that your blower speed will increase if you feed it more oil. Unless you buy another hyd motor for the blower with a larger displacement volume. Kinda a catch 22, unless you don't mind running the blower at a higher rpm.

I wonder if there is any place you can add a smaller pump to the tractor and combine the flow of this to the pump you have. Thats how the high flow skidsteers are set up. A simple valve allows selection of one pump (standard flow) or both pumps (high flow)

I put the high flow kit on my NH Ls160 and it uses a a small pump belt driven off the crank which adds 9 gpm to the system. The newer ones use a single tandem pump instead, but same end result.
Ken

Thanks for your comment(s) Ken - sounds like a great idea and I shall look at it seriously. The dealer where I got the tractor will be interested too as he has another customer with the same size tractor who also wants to run his snowblower at the front.

One thought, and I'll display my hydraulic ignorance here, could there be an issue of having enough reservoir for an "high flow" set up with an additional smaller pump?

Bob

 

[JoelD]

Another thing to keep in mind is heat.

I am not certain but I'd expect a set up like that to generate some heat, I guess a good thing is it is winter use, but something to consider when you are running that kind of flow rate at pressure.

Joel

 

[jenkinsph]

Why not buy a windrower minus the head and build it up with a real snowblower. No turning your head around, no driveline issues, just make one or two passes, call it quits and go get a beer.

 

[J_J]

I have been thinking about this, and remember something from years ago. Have any of you seen a PTO gear box that slid on the PTO shaft, and a long shaft went under the tractor to the front to turn whatever was mounted to the shaft.

I believe the B-8200 Kubota had three power take off, back, middle , and one of them on the front for front mounted implements.

You all are talking about the hydraulic motors, and GPM, presure, etc. You will be limited by the total HP of the tractor. If it is 30 HP, then power steering will use some, PTO will use some, My B-9200 has a mid mount mower PTO. and the tractor is an HST, so with an implement on the back working, you will be using just about all the available HP. You can not generate more HP by adding something on the back, because it will use part of the available HPto run it. You will still be limited to PTO HP maybe a little less.

Can you use a hydraulic motor to turn a snow blower on the front. Well, yes, with limitation. You can use what is left over from the hyd pump after steering and transport, meaning the power to move the tractor. Say you have 10 GPM pump, If you used say half of that to turn a hydraulic motor, that would be 5 GPM. Now figure the loss in HP when you use hyd fluid to run a motor at 85% efficiency, then you reduce the HP available to the hyd motor. Now, how much weight is the hyd motor trying to turn with the air resistance, to build up enough speed to effectively throw snow which adds more weight to the formula. Then you build an impeller or buy one , and try and adapt it, keeping in mind the weight of the blades/impellers.

Now if you have a snow blower, that was used on the PTO, then it will require similar HP to run it effectively. Now the question is, do you have enough hydraulic HP to get the job done, and can you find the right motor, with the right pressure, and rpm.

It might be as simple, as, if this snow blower ran off the PTO, then with the right hyd motor, it should work about the same, maybe a little less.

If you add, say a PTO hyd pump. The availiable HP will dictate the size of pump you can run.

 

[mtg65]

I have been thinking about this, and remember something from years ago. Have any of you seen a PTO gear box that slid on the PTO shaft, and a long shaft went under the tractor to the front to turn whatever was mounted to the shaft.

I was thinking the same thing and found this in a preveous thread.

Front Mount Kits

I have contacted the company to find out if this would work with my tractor and blower but they have yet to respond. Has any TBN'rs tried this setup?

 

[aczlan]

Perhaps this has been thought of, but what about putting a generator on the PTO and a electric motor on the front? Might be easier to get (for example) a 3 phase 15 hp 1700 rpm motor reduced to 540 rpms ($800ish from a quick ebay search) and a 3 phase generator head ($800ish from a similarly quick ebay search) and then just run a circuit breaker or a solenoid controlled circuit breaker into the cab to turn it on and off. The remote hyd circuit could then be used to run the chute direction. Costwise it would probably be about the same, but it might be easier to run wires than to run 1" hyd lines.

This idea is not soley mine. In 2008 I went with my wife on a tour of Mason Dixon Farms (among others). They have on some of their tractors a 480v genset mounted to the crankshaft of the engine and use electric power instead of hydraulics for some things (we didn't get much more info than that, the other dairy producers on the bus were not really interested. I could have spent all day in their shop and looking at their equipment).

Aaron Z

 

[jenkinsph]

I was thinking the same thing and found this in a preveous thread.

Front Mount Kits

I have contacted the company to find out if this would work with my tractor and blower but they have yet to respond. Has any TBN'rs tried this setup?

This is probably about as efficient a setup you can get (in theory, havent used one) since the power losses will not be as much as the hydraulic methods. the downside is lots of linkage and bulk, driveline maintenance.


Without getting bogged down and lost here you really would have to consider how much blowing you have to do. If you do it alot and need it I would consider a tractor capable of using a front mount unit, if you need it less frequently then consider gritting your teeth and stick with a rear unit.

 

[dourobob]

Bob
I wonder if there is any place you can add a smaller pump to the tractor and combine the flow of this to the pump you have. Thats how the high flow skidsteers are set up. A simple valve allows selection of one pump (standard flow) or both pumps (high flow)
I put the high flow kit on my NH Ls160 and it uses a a small pump belt driven off the crank ...
Ken

Hi again Ken and the rest of you experienced Hydraulic folks
I have been wrestling with this issue for a while now and am really interested in what Ken you have called the "high flow kit"

Once again I shall display my hydraulic ignorance - but I believe questions are the window to knowledge

I am wondering:
1 - Does it make any sense for me to run a 9-10 gal pump off my PTO and tie it in to the tractor system? Then I can turn it on and off as required using the PTO.
2 - Would the PSI have to be identical?
3 - How do I combined the flow from the two pumps (tractor and PTO) to operate the snowblower? With a T connection or ??
4 - Would I need a second 10 gal reservoir for the PTO pump? If so, how do I get a balanced return of oil to that reservoir as well as to the tractor reservoir.
5 - Are there other adaptations?
6 - or am I missing something really fundamental here??

I realize that one 23 GPM pump off the PTO would run the snowblower but it requires a larger reservoir and appears to be more expensive - once again, am I missing something?

Thanks for your comments
Bob

 

[J_J]

As long as you have available HP, you can add a pump or pumps until you run out of HP.

Say, if you wanted 25 GPM at 2500 psi, then the pump would have a displacement of 2.3 cu in, and require 43 HP to run it .

I believe that once an engine is selected for a tractor, the things that go into that selection, are how much work will the tractor have to do. How much PTO HP, How much HP is left to select the right pump.

Say you had a tractor with 20 HP, the pump selection has been made based on available HP. If you try and add a larger pump, or an additional pump, the whole system will suffer if using everything at once. Those system that have low and high flow, already have the HP that is not being used.

I have a Case skidsteer that only has about 18 GPM. However the off a kit for high flow, which is a larger pump. They can do this because I have extra HP to run the larger pump.

 

[MichiganIron]

We have done several Front Mount applications for Rear Snow Blowers. We spent a considerable amount of time and $$$ testing systems on different tractors.

A few of the results may be helpful:

Don't use your tractor hydraulics to attempt to run a full hydraulic blower application. We use the tractor hydraulics for the Blower lift (sub-frame mounts) and hydraulic chute rotation. The continuous flow required to run a blower is not practical for a CUT hydraulic system. We have done set-ups on tractors up to 55hp, and use an auxiliary system.

Assume 80% efficiency on your hydrualic drive system.

Size the system for the horse power required (recommended) for the blower.

Size any system components based on recommended flow rates. Flow velocity is a VERY important design consideration.

The practicality of even an auxiliary system stops at about an 84" blower. Above that, the cost sky-rockets.

You can't put a good system together for $800.

We can't give out our complete system design, but thought that sharing a few "Lessons Learned" may reduce your tuition costs. We paid ours.

Regards,