How do you hook your Log tongs to draw bar?

[CJBOTA]

Can I assume the safety expert is human, therefore his engineered solution may also be "fallable". These so called experts and engineers take simple things and make them complicated. They solve a simple problem by creating a more complex problem.
Take the ROPS for example. Does it not add weight way above the cg therefore making the machine more likely to tip over? Is it above and behind your line of sight therefore you forget it is back there? Does it not catch on all kinds of things? In the last 5 years my rops almost killed me three times. Actually, I even take chances on slopes I otherwise would not take because I might not get killed if the tractor rolls over.
My old tractor doesn't have rops. When you get on it you know if it rolls over you are going to die. So you don't take chances.You know what you are dealing with. Trying to make things fool proof is a tricky business.
I'm not sure you can fix stupid.
cj

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks but I'll stick with the advice from safety engineers and OSHA over that of someone who thinks his ROPS is out to get him. Do you also not wear a seatbelt in case your car ends up in a pond? Would you prefer your pilot to give the plane a once over with his experienced eye rather than follow a check list? We may not like to admit fallability but there is plenty of data to back up engineered safety solutions over training and other human dependent systems. There are always exceptions but the weight of evidence strongly supports taking human judgment out if the equation if an acceptable engineered solution is available.

 

[CJBOTA]

My all time favorite safety contraption was an airbag on a Goldwing motorcycle. If one is that concerned about his safety why is he riding a motorcycle in the first place. Another thing about safety experts I could never figure out is why they always go half way. Almost every safety gadget can easily be disconnected. If they are serious they could spend another 15 minutes and make it tamper proof. Whats with the fold down rops? they only want you protected half the time. Generally, safety engineers are engineers who can't cut it in product design, you know the stupid ones.
Also, I try to keep one eye on my rops at all times. That sucker will probably save my life some day if it doesn't kill me first.
cj

PS: I forgot, OSHA is a huge joke! They are experts at taking human judgement out of the equasion.

 

[Baby Grand]

OSHA is a huge joke!

I used to work for a lumber company that had the same opinion about OSHA. In the 2 years I spent there I personally witnessed:

1) an operator drive a fork lift out of an open railroad boxcar door
2) an operator drive a forklift over another employee's leg
3) a driver who split his jaw in two right up the middle using a chain binder
4) a driver park a flatbed truck in what would become the living room of a new house because his brakes had been leaking for months.
5) a driver lay a 10 wheeler on it's side because he was driving with 3 flats.

There were many other "events" that I didn't witness personally, but heard about later.

OSHA may not be the cure for all things safety related, but at least it puts the idea into a company's head that there are consequences to operating a dangerous shop.

-Jim

 

[IslandTractor]

PS: I forgot, OSHA is a huge joke! They are experts at taking human judgement out of the equasion.

Sometimes that is better than removing the individual from the gene pool.

Sorry you don't respect OSHA/NIOSH/CDC as they are clearly global leaders in this area and have a lot more to offer than puffed up opinions unsubstantiated by data. In God we trust, all others must show data.

NIOSH/UPDATE/tractor hitching

 

[Gordon Gould]

There is good and bad in everything including OSHA.But maybe more bad than good from my limited experience I have seen two extremes. I worked in a mfg plant in NH that was a nightmere. Unguarded rotating equipment everywhere even in the walkways. And large unguarded very hot surfaces (> 300 F). Unvented plastic extrusion area that gave me a headache. OSHA had no problems with things. I worked in another plant 30 miles away across the river in VT. The offices were not air conditioned so every one had a little plastic fan. One day the OSHA guy came around and cut the plugs off of all the fans in the office because they didn't have three prong plugs. He also demanded that all the toilet seats be replaced because they were a circle instead of horseshoe shaped.

 

[IslandTractor]

One day the OSHA guy came around and cut the plugs off of all the fans in the office because they didn't have three prong plugs. He also demanded that all the toilet seats be replaced because they were a circle instead of horseshoe shaped.

I didn't say everyone who worked for OSHA was reasonable, intelligent or helpful. Still the organization and the culture of work safety it promotes have definitely improved worker safety.

A lot of the resistance to changes demanded by OSHA is understandable as "we've always done it that way" is a powerful inertia factor. This thread is a good example of how hard it is to teach old dogs new tricks. Still, in general (not so sure about the horseshoe shaped toilet seats) there is a decent rationale and empirical data behind what their regulations require. Yes there are screwy situations that pop up here and there but it is hard to ignore the overall benefit to worker and public safety. Those of you who remain doubters should travel outside North America and Western Europe to parts of the world where there is no OSHA equivalent. That will make you a believer.

 

[20 20]

lets be honest OSHA is just another made up job to push rates even higher, and I'm not saying that a business doesn't need safety. I want to ask WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO COMMON SENSE ??????????? Find that and then maybe we'll get back to being safe !!!!! Like I said in an earlier post, all this safety crap just helps morons get into machines. Lets invent the bogley bolgey safety device instead of teach respect and common sense. That way when the bogley bogley safety switch fails{which it will, after all it's man made} moron Bob can have an acident because in all honesty he never had a clue in the 1st place. Again I'm not against being safe nor against safety devices but in the end it is still up to the Joe Sue Kris behind the wheel. OSHA can say whatever they want it still does not change the human in the operators seat.
Next week maybe I'll tell ya'll how I really feel :laughing:

 

[IslandTractor]

The morons are the ones do don't learn from history. Do you seriously believe machinery and equipment was safer in the 1930's before OSHA?

Common sense is uncommon. Equipment and machinery operators get tired, bored and make mistakes. I don't see why equipment cannot be designed with that in mind given it is a near univeral human experience. If you think OSHA is rigid, check out the operations of an aircraft carrier flight deck.

Rabid anti government types need to step back and appreciate that there is a positive role for research, regulations and enforcement even if those things are expensive, painful and sometimes really annoying. If OSHA isn't working for you then suggest positive fixes rather than whining about how great it used to be before they inflicted ROPS on us.

 

[CJBOTA]

Maybe if OSHA and all our other wonderful government agencies went to China maybe some jobs would return to America! I'm fairly sure the reduction of farmers since the 30's has had a lot more to do with less incidents then OSHA. Most of the time OSHA only shows up if someone gets killed or a disgruntled employee rats out the company. For all the billions OSHA has spent I sure hope they have saved someone. I do know the details of an OSHA visit to a small local machine shop. The owner did not know what lock out tag out was, he didn't know what msds was, etc, etc. Instead of addressing any serious issues or trying to educate the idiot, they fined him $1200 for 9 extension cords that did not have a ground prong. Wow, I wonder what that insightful effort cost us taxpayers. Please don't get to carried away with giving OSHA credit. Mostly they are just a bunch of beaurocrats that wouldn't have a job if they weren't on the government gravy train
cj