How do you hook your Log tongs to draw bar?

[sms0000]

So I have to ask. Is this the way that has been argued back and forth as dangerous?

http://www.norwoodindustries.com/Libraries/Other_Misc/Img00032.sflb.ashx

I have one of these log hogs and I use a chain, instead of a grapple/tong as shown in the pic. I chain my log as close to the top of the unit as I can and then raise it so its well clear of the ground. Other than a Logging winch setup, this is clearly more safe than dragging from the draw bar. There is a draw bar and then there's a 3pth......I would use a 3pth hitch setup as I have over a draw bar, any year of the century. My 2 cents. Oh and I ain't dumb .
This log isn't catching anything!

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have one of these log hogs and I use a chain, instead of a grapple/tong as shown in the pic. I chain my log as close to the top of the unit as I can and then raise it so its well clear of the ground. Other than a Logging winch setup, this is clearly more safe than dragging from the draw bar. There is a draw bar and then there's a 3pth......I would use a 3pth hitch setup as I have over a draw bar, any year of the century. My 2 cents. Oh and I ain't dumb .
This log isn't catching anything!

Incorrect tho. The safe way is a combination of lift from the 3ph and pull from the tractor drawbar.
larry

 

[Baby Grand]

So you dont see that your setup is more sound and safer than Chillys. Well darn!, were not getting anywhere. ... He is pulling from the 3ph. You are pulling from the tractor drawbar. - - As a tractor back tips the 3ph is free to pivot upward around its pivot points on the tractor. This does nothing to moderate backtip. In contrast, the tractor fixed drawbar moves down as a backtip proceeds. A load pulled from this point loses leverage on the tractor as the backtip proceeds. There comes a point where the tractor can tip no further.
Yes, Chillys goes a step to make his setup safer with the low hang snag guard. That is about as far as you can go pulling from the 3ph and it hasnt addressed the fundamental problem since the guard itself is on the 3point -- a snag of the guard can cause an unmoderated tip. With your setup a guard is not necessary and could turn into a nuisance if not well designed, ... or a danger if placed on the 3point.
larry

Larry,

My appologies for not being completely convinced that what I do is the best way to do it. My attachment method (Lift with the boom pole & Pull with the drawbar) is my under $300 solution to not having a 3PT logging winch, which I would trade my left stone to own. It's a lot more work, but since I had zippo experience and noone to show me "how it's done" this was my answer to the question "How am I going to get that log to where I can cut it up without landing a tractor on my sorry self?".

Now I'm confused - is the 3PT logging winch less safe than the chain & boom pole? Somehow I just can't accept that. How is a logging winch functionally different from Chilly's rig? I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm just trying to figure out how best to do this without getting squashed beneath my tractor.

-Jim

 

[pycoed]

Just read this thread with increasing incredulity. To all those who are pulling from the toplink, you are negating one of the two main reasons that Ferguson developed the three point linkage, namely to prevent rear flipping. Since Harry Ferguson's development almost every tractor has been equipped with a TPH - why do you think that might be?
It seems that even 60+ years after the man went to so much trouble to make life safer for tractor users some still don't understand the idea.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Larry,
My attachment method (Lift with the boom pole & Pull with the drawbar) is my under $300 solution to not having a 3PT logging winch, which I would trade my left stone to own. It's a lot more work, but since I had zippo experience and noone to show me "how it's done" this was my answer to the question "How am I going to get that log to where I can cut it up without landing a tractor on my sorry self?".

Now I'm confused - is the 3PT logging winch less safe than the chain & boom pole? Somehow I just can't accept that. How is a logging winch functionally different from Chilly's rig? I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm just trying to figure out how best to do this without getting squashed beneath my tractor.

-Jim

Good query! To answer, if the 3point winch is being used [like Chillys rig] in mobile tractor mode and the pull point is from anywhere on its frame [which itself is mounted to the floating 3ph arms] it is less safe than your setup. ... But while it is in its "safe" range it is much more manageable than yours and gives an illusion of real safety. Your lift point is way too far back. Any weight you suspend with your setup has a lot of leverage trying to tip the tractor back. Were you to also pull from the boompole it would be very bad. Instead, as you begin to move your bottom chain hooked to the tractor drawbar tautens and does almost all the pulling. The tendency of the far back suspended weight to back tip you is still there, but the pull point you use prevents the pull from multiplying the effect. And if you do wheelie, the drawbar moves down, shifting the pullpoint lower and lower. This resists the wheelie more and more as it develops. This limiting effect does not happen with a 3ph mounted pull point because the tractor end of the link pivots are essentially on the axle and remain at the same height as the tractor tips.
... If you really want something good I think you should buy a HF Quick Hitch and hang the tongs from the top hook. Thatll move your lift point 2' closer to the tractor than the boompole. Use the drawbar pullpoint as you do now.:thumbsup:
larry

 

[Snowstorm]

Pictures of your set up would be appreciated. if you have one handy. Winch isn't in the budget

I needed a winch about 30 years ago and didn't have the budget. But, I did have a welder, torches and access to lots of scrap and old parts, so I made a winch. The arch is a narrowed front end off a 1950ish GMC tractor. The winch is made from a 67 chevy pickup trans with granny low and a rearend out of a 53 International schoolbus. One side of the rearend is capped off to keep the grease in and the is axle welded to the cap, forcing all the rotation to the top axle. Winch drum is well casing. Drum lock works like a come-along latch - click, click, click when winching. The butts of the logs are lifted off the ground and the weight transfers to the little trailer arch. If the ground is good you can skid 5 or 6 trees at a time. Never tried to figure out what it's capacity is, but I can tell you that it will winch a white pine 3 foot at the butt and 50-60 feet long if you wedge a rear tractor tire against a treee. Turns a 35 hp tractor into a mini skidder.

 

[Baby Grand]

Snowstorm-
I like it. None too pretty, but it looks like it really pulls. And very little risk of standing your tractor on end.

I have been thinking about what Larry was saying about the HF QH conversion while still using the drawbar pull connection. I think that it might be overkill with the load that close to the rear axle and lifted high enough that it can't snag on any rocks or roots - I'll have to do the moment diagrams for my particular equipment and see if it makes sense in my case or if it's not needed. My inclination to guess is becoming clouded by my need to know.

I'd like to add a twist (!) and add a PTO driven capstan winch to the works so I could use my low stretch, polester rope rather than steel cable. I like handling the rope better - it weighs much less, it doesn't kink and it's much kinder on the hands. Plus I already have 3 snatch blocks sized for the rope. The advantage of the capstan winch is that it can be "clutched' by pulling or slackening on the loose end coming off the drum. This allows you to stand somewheres away from the winch in case a line snaps or you need a better view of the pull. Adding a blade to the bottom of the hitch and high and low pulleys to feed out the rope would give the rig the stability that I want, both reeling in the loads and dragging them out.

-Jim

 

[Gio]

My first week with my new GC2400 was spent pulling (skidding) logs. I used 15ft of 3/8 G70 chain w/ slip hooks and I attached a clevis to the draw bar. Low gear, 4wd and limited slip really grunted some big trees.

I also put together 8ft of lighter g70 and 12 ft of 3/8 SS cable to rope and choke all the loose light stuff and pull it to a clearing for burning.

I feel pretty good about this set-up.

 

[eastexan]

Good query! To answer, if the 3point winch is being used [like Chillys rig] in mobile tractor mode and the pull point is from anywhere on its frame [which itself is mounted to the floating 3ph arms] it is less safe than your setup. ... But while it is in its "safe" range it is much more manageable than yours and gives an illusion of real safety. Your lift point is way too far back. Any weight you suspend with your setup has a lot of leverage trying to tip the tractor back. Were you to also pull from the boompole it would be very bad. Instead, as you begin to move your bottom chain hooked to the tractor drawbar tautens and does almost all the pulling. The tendency of the far back suspended weight to back tip you is still there, but the pull point you use prevents the pull from multiplying the effect. And if you do wheelie, the drawbar moves down, shifting the pullpoint lower and lower. This resists the wheelie more and more as it develops. This limiting effect does not happen with a 3ph mounted pull point because the tractor end of the link pivots are essentially on the axle and remain at the same height as the tractor tips.
... If you really want something good I think you should buy a HF Quick Hitch and hang the tongs from the top hook. Thatll move your lift point 2' closer to the tractor than the boompole. Use the drawbar pullpoint as you do now.:thumbsup:
larry

:drink:
Great explanation, Larry. Well thought out & spot on. :thumbsup:

 

[Slacker]

Here is how i do it. I don't lift them high, just enough to clear the ground.