How do you hook your Log tongs to draw bar?

[Varmintmist]

Greetings Learned Forum:

I have read this thread with great interest, because the majority of my tractor use for the next couple of summers will be skidding logs. For those of you who do this routinely, what are you opinions on the best log pulling set ups? Sure, a Farmi skidding winch would be great, but I don't have the $5K for one. Keeping it simple (hooks, chains, lets say under $300) what is the best combination of safety and effectiveness?

As always, your opinions are greatly appreciated.

Nick

Carry all on the 3pt, and cut it to firewood in the woods is the best way. Chainsaw chains last longer that way.

If I am skidding, I cut it to size and limb it, then I use a chain to the drawbar, not a 3pt drawbar, the frame drawbar and drag easy.

 

[20 20]

Yeah, but keep in mind the ones that did not survive that experience tend not to post on TBN anymore. .

I have to write this, do you or have you ever been around children? If so did you let them play with matches/fire when they were real young, probably not. Now when they get older and we're out camping we probably don't mind having _____ teenager build us a fire. Did the matches change,.,..,.NOPE, did fire become cold unless needed to heat or cook,.,.,.,.NOPE. What did happen,,.....they{children} learned and hopefully became respectable of matches/fire.

I learned logging from my father who believed 100% in learn it the hard way 1st then you get the goodies later. What that means is find out what things are about, example, I had to learn how to saw wood with a 2 man manual saw, before I could run the chainsaw. I had to learn to split wood with a splitting maul before running a splitter etc... If he would of had access to a team of horses or oxen I'd of been using them to skid before getting on a tractor Back then I thought he was just being cruel, little did I know what he was really teaching me, respect and responsibility which in turn = SAFETY.

 

[arrow]

would NEVER consider myself a professional tree faller nor would I ever consider ANY other person one, IMO there is no such thing. Every time something to do with logging comes up there are to many varibles to ever have one way written in stone, other then PAY ATTENTION !!!!

If someone is paying me to log with all the attended to related items, methods and various end products as it relates to loggiung and I have done it for 30 years then I certainly do consider it a profession and can consider myself a professional when it comes to this type of work. I worked hard day in and day out encountering all the dangers inherent to such a job learning, learning and learning somemore over that time period. Do I know everything about the profession ? absolutely not and I doubt anyone else does no matter what the line of work being done that one can be called a professional in. Not knowing everything in any line of work does not necessarily mitigate the individual from being a pro at it whether it is a doctor, lawyer, teacher, baker or candlestick maker.

 

[IslandTractor]

Experience is definitely an important factor in safety I must agree. However it is a human factor and people are somewhat inconsistent and prone to errors. I have a lifetime of experience walking but I trip once in a while. An experienced careful tractor operator can still screw up occasionally too.

The laws of physics on the other hand are pretty much immutable. Tractor designers have used those laws to provide a safe drawbar for pulling. Pulling with a drawbar pretty much eliminates flip overs due to simple laws of physics.

Why not just use the drawbar or at least advise others to do so. I may choose to speed in my car but I am not going to get on a forum and say that I've had a lifetime of driving at 85mph and therefore it is safe for anyone to do so so long as they are cautious. Regardless of my habits I know that 85 is inherently more dangerous than 65, period. I fully accept that experienced operators like 20-20 and arrow have used different methods for years without trouble but that still doesn't seem a good reason to do anything but acknowledge that pulling with an attachment point above the drawbar/rear axle is simply dangerous and should be discouraged. The practice should be avoided on pretty much the same grounds that driving without seatbelts should be discouraged. Some people with a lot of experience have gotten away with these relatively unsafe practices but as this is a forum responding to a question posted by a newbie it just seems wrong to me to do anything but discourage these high pull point practices.

 

[arrow]

Experience is definitely an important factor in safety I must agree. However it is a human factor and people are somewhat inconsistent and prone to errors. I have a lifetime of experience walking but I trip once in a while. An experienced careful tractor operator can still screw up occasionally too.

The laws of physics on the other hand are pretty much immutable. Tractor designers have used those laws to provide a safe drawbar for pulling. Pulling with a drawbar pretty much eliminates flip overs due to simple laws of physics.

Why not just use the drawbar or at least advise others to do so. I may choose to speed in my car but I am not going to get on a forum and say that I've had a lifetime of driving at 85mph and therefore it is safe for anyone to do so so long as they are cautious. Regardless of my habits I know that 85 is inherently more dangerous than 65, period. I fully accept that experienced operators like 20-20 and arrow have used different methods for years without trouble but that still doesn't seem a good reason to do anything but acknowledge that pulling with an attachment point above the drawbar/rear axle is simply dangerous and should be discouraged. The practice should be avoided on pretty much the same grounds that driving without seatbelts should be discouraged. Some people with a lot of experience have gotten away with these relatively unsafe practices but as this is a forum responding to a question posted by a newbie it just seems wrong to me to do anything but discourage these high pull point practices.

You speak in generalities which is fine if everyone lived within the same parameters. That is simply not the case and as a result, when you are attempting to give safety advice, it may be working against you in certain cases. The variables are the key. Let us assume one is using his c.u.t to pull logs in a ground obstructed area. A chain wrapped around a log that is being pulled by the hitch bar has more lee way to create a lateral roll. If the log rolls enough and the chain is now resting and being dragged at the bottom of the log and the log has encountered a ground obstruction which it is more prone to do which this type of connection, then you stand the same type of risk you are trying to avoid. The force is now tugging down on the tractor and a powerful enough tractor might just begin to rotate on its axle. Why has this been a perfectly safe method for others by lifting the with a 3 point? 1. the log or log tips are elevated and thus less prone to catch at a critical place which is just below the hitching point. 2. One is dragging the rear of the log and thus creating weight on back of the tractor creating traction and more importantly, stability. 3. 4 wheel drive mitigates the tractive force of rear wheel drive as the drive dynamics are being shared. In other words the drive of a rear wheel only coupled vehicle has more of a chance of turning the tractor on its own axle because it is its only drive force. 4. The weight of the logs are being distributed along the entire tractor chassis and with a front end loader, this distribution is more spaced out. A smaller cut is lower to the ground than on a larger tractor so yes there are tractors I would not take into the woods let alone attach something to either on the hitch bar or the draw bar so your advice is not necessarily making anyone more safe. I'd rather be saying look at your own variables such as tractor size and type, power, terrain how much weight are you attaching to the tractor. A tractor such as the one pictured earlier, will drag a 600 Lb log safely to kingdom come attached to the hitch adaptor. It may not do so with a 3000 Lb load. If I listened to the general advice of wearing a seatbelt at all times on a tractor, on my tractor I'd be dead now. My tractor is 4' wide. If it rolls over and you are pinned to the seat by the belt, your head goes beyond the fender and contacts the ground because the tractor is so narrow. Not so on a larger tractor so I'd wear my seatbelt. My assertion is don't be lulled into a safety complacency because someone or company states it so. They have to for litigation purposes. Use your own head. Look at your own situation and make a judgement based on your own variables. You can be perfectly safe logging with the 3 point or you may not. You can be perfectly safe logging with the hitch bar or you may not. It depends on the variables and particulars which I'd rather rely on more so than the generalities. Whether you are a newbie or a veteran, I'd always give that advice first because in the end, either hitching to the 3 point or the hitch bar can be dangerous or safe with the right set of variables.

 

[JohninCT]

Here's a video of some logging/skidding tools that might be of some interest.

YouTube - Norwood Industries SkidMate - Tree Felling Jack - Log Skidding Arch - MultiMate

 

[JohninCT]

Here's another vid of tractor skidding tool that uses tongs. Note the chains connected from the tongs to the drawbar. This setup is much like someone else mentioned how they hook up using tongs to lift and chains to pull.

YouTube - Small tractor log skidder.mpg

 

[Famah]

Dear John:

I am liking that Log Hog. It seems like it would raise the end of the log a tad higher than just a chain connected to a draw bar, but not nearly to the height of a boom, which implicates all kinds of balance and safety issues.

Here is what Forum member Brad Blazer had to say:

"A quick hitch makes a pretty good skidding attachment. I use a short chain and attach a set of tongs to the center hook."
3-Point Quick Hitch - 27-1/2" Clearance

It is much less expensive (about 1/3 the cost) than the Log Hog, and appears to be able to do the job nicely. PLUS it is not a dedicated logging tool, A quick hitch is something that will come in handy all the time.

As far as my needs and budget, considering safety and effectiveness, a quick hitch is the leading contender for pulling logs right now.

The only other thing I saw in the Norwood video that made me want was the winch. How nice it would be to be able to pull logs out of nasty spots, instead of having to back up right to where they are. But by the time you add a winch, aren't you effectively talking about a poor man's Farmi logging winch set up, but doing it piece by piece and not nearly as well? I guess I don't know enough about how logging winches are used with tractors, or even if they should be.

Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences using winches to pull logs with their tractors?

Nick

Here's a video of some logging/skidding tools that might be of some interest.

YouTube - Norwood Industries SkidMate - Tree Felling Jack - Log Skidding Arch - MultiMate

 

[JohninCT]

As far as my needs and budget, considering safety and effectiveness, a quick hitch is the leading contender for pulling logs right now.

I agree a quick hitch with the tongs hooked to the top hook is essentially the same thing as a Norwood Log Hog. This is the setup that beenthere uses and posted that launched this thread into a 5 page safety discussion. I don't want to rehash any previous points but I will simply point out that the manufacturer cautions on use of the Log Hog are front ballast, extreme caution/no use up hills. That said, I think that the Log Hog or quick hitch could be used safely to skid logs. In my option the addition of a chain from the log to a hook or clevis on the drawbar would help make it safer to pull logs. Regardless, you just need to go slow and be careful and evaluate every pull to reasonably determine the potential risks to life and limb

 

[arrow]

An L3400 is a great size tractor to take into the woods. Any tractor that is low slung making its center of gravity lower is a safer logging tractor. Some farm tractors sit real high so one can see better the work area. I would not take this type of tractor into N.E. woods at all. Notice how skidders are built. High placed axles causing mechanicals ( the heaviest part of a skidder) riding lower. Be reasonable with your hitch size, be aware of terrain and speed and you'll be just fine. Winches are wonderful things and come in handier than one realizes which is sort of like a front end loader. You think its for dirt and scooping but you find out it can be used for a million other things. If you have alot of woods work, you will not be sorry purchasing a winch. One of my favorite things to use with a winch is the drop and go. You reach a slippery area with your load. Lack of traction is causing you to go nowhere. You drop your load , let out some cable, get a better purchase with your machine, drag back your load and off you go.