I bought the same pair of tongs from Northern. I used them once and hung them in the barn. For some reason they didn't grab the logs hard enough and hold on. I had to keep getting off the tractor and reset them. Each time they would just slip off. I tried grinding a sharper point and even setting the points with a hammer into the log. None of this worked. I gave up and went back to using a chain with a slip hook and attached the chain to the draw bar with a clevis. It's a littler more work, but it always works. I'm also able to pull multiple small trees and brush out of the woods with this method. The only draw back is the wood gets dragged through the dirt. Much harde on the chainsaw and 3pt saw buck.
How do you hook your Log tongs to draw bar?
- Thread starter iplumb
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Elite Member
Getting in a car and driving 70mph{or more} on an interstate is probably just as dangerous if not more.
I don't think using what one has at hand and being SAFE is dumb! Folks are dying even with all of todays self save devices just like they were yesteryear. It all comes back to being an operator and paying ATTENTION to what one is doing. As far as your example of a tractor going up a hill and being jerked to a suden halt, I believe it could happen especially with an INEXPERIENCED operator that probably should NOT have been doing this type of work in the 1st place. Just because my car has a seat belt and air bags doesn't mean I'll let a 13yr old take it for a cruise
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Elite Member
IslandTractor; I understand your point and believe it is a good one. What I didn't care for was the "dumb" word added. Our ancesters were not "dumb" nor were their methods of getting a job done. Some folks don't have all the goodies that others do, infact if we really want to get technical we could say the ONLY proper and safe way to remove logs is with $200,000 logging machinery. How many of us have a skidder sitting in the back yard??????? for those that don't you'd be "dumb" for trying to move a log. SEE WHAT I MEAN?
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Elite Member
Iplumb: I have to ask have you been hauling logs with a chain this? If so this might help clear up the debate. Many folks have hauled logs this way for years without injury or accident. As was pointed out slow steady ready for anything driving will get the job done.
I also bought the same tongs you're getting, you're probably going to want to sharpen the tips. As someone else pointed out it still may not be what you were wanting.
IslandTractor
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I understand your point. My use of the word "dumb" is intentional however and aimed at newbies who might be looking on TBN for advice on how to drag a log. For a newbie to follow the advice to hook up a drag load to a topping lift attachment point would be dangerous and "dumb". I am aware that people do this and survive but it is exactly the inexperienced operator who would fail to understand the physics and risk and therefore might very well 1) go too fast, 2) head up an incline, 3) fail to scan for stumps/rocks etc that might snag the load or 4) be overconfident in their ability to quickly stop the tractor or remove power. I would argue that #4 applies to all of us as evidenced by many very experienced tractor operators who have been killed in flip over accidents when a load is chained up higher than the drawbar.
I doubt going 70mph on a freeway in a modern vehicle with a sober driver is anywhere near as dangerous as the aforementioned dragging practice though. Yes you can die in a car accident but proper safety devices have consistently lowered that risk so that risk of death per mile traveled is now about a third of what it was 50 years ago. I'd consider the drawbar to be equivalent to a modern auto safety device (take your pick: seatbelts, airbags, antilock brakes, stability control, safer tires, better brakes, crush zones etc etc). I might choose to drive down the highway at 70 in a Model A with none of these devices but no one should think that is as safe as doing the same in a 2011 Ford sedan equipped with all those devices. I'm just trying to make sure newbies are not equating the two risks.
You don't need a fancy logging machine or even a logging winch to safely move logs out of the woods. It might take a little more thought and time but there are alternatives. A skidder device (car hood or cone) is one very simple example. Without careful consideration of the physics, Baby Grand's method seems superior to using the topping lift point too. For short distances, lash the log to the FEL and back out. Etc Etc.
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IslanderTractor; I'd say we have our debate solved about pulling with a tractor. I believe we both would feel strongly about operator experience, even at pulling the simplest of logs etc....
Now as far as your opinion on vehicles going down a highway being very safe........ I'll have to see if I can find a video that IMO every single driver in America and elsewhere should watch. I have debated about putting it on here because it is graphic and it would probably put many in shock. I'm not saying it is of bad nature just VERY serious photo's and skits of what happens EVERY SINGLE DAY on our roads. I drove tractor trailer for many yrs and can say not everyday on the road was just a beautifull site seeing trip. Folks can be sober have all the safety features and be crusing along at a safe speed, in less then a blink of a second lives can and will be changed. No matter how safe we think we are THINGS CAN {and will} HAPPEN.
Now as far as your opinion on vehicles going down a highway being very safe........ I'll have to see if I can find a video that IMO every single driver in America and elsewhere should watch. I have debated about putting it on here because it is graphic and it would probably put many in shock. I'm not saying it is of bad nature just VERY serious photo's and skits of what happens EVERY SINGLE DAY on our roads. I drove tractor trailer for many yrs and can say not everyday on the road was just a beautifull site seeing trip. Folks can be sober have all the safety features and be crusing along at a safe speed, in less then a blink of a second lives can and will be changed. No matter how safe we think we are THINGS CAN {and will} HAPPEN.
IslandTractor
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Exactly. Which brings us back to the flip over....even experienced safe operators can run into an unexpected situation that develops far faster than any human can adequately respond to before physics takes over and all that power/momentum/mass suddenly takes us out. Cannot eliminate the risk but we sure need to try to minimize it.:thumbsup:
RoyJackson
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If you read this safety forum enough, and about tractor safety in general, I think you'd find the majority of accidents happen to well experienced operators who have become complacent.
Gale Hawkins
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I tend to agree with you. Small tractors add risks in my view because the load to tractor weight can be much closer.
July 2008 my BIL died on a Ford 600 picking up cross ties off the side of the railroad track when the tractor rolled. Had he been using his IH with ROP he would not have rolled I expect but if he had been wearing a seat belt should have be OK if he had of.
My guess was the low side rear wheel dropped into a hole but did not visit the site.
Few people pull large logs with tractors with out some understanding of risk if they fell the trees and all.
It can be a pain to work around but even leaving on the box blade can offer a lot of protecting if the tractor nose comes up because the rear tires will loose pulling traction at some point.
ROP's and seatbelt use is key to staying alive.
Famah
Bronze Member
Greetings Learned Forum:
I have read this thread with great interest, because the majority of my tractor use for the next couple of summers will be skidding logs. For those of you who do this routinely, what are you opinions on the best log pulling set ups? Sure, a Farmi skidding winch would be great, but I don't have the $5K for one. Keeping it simple (hooks, chains, lets say under $300) what is the best combination of safety and effectiveness?
As always, your opinions are greatly appreciated.
Nick
I have read this thread with great interest, because the majority of my tractor use for the next couple of summers will be skidding logs. For those of you who do this routinely, what are you opinions on the best log pulling set ups? Sure, a Farmi skidding winch would be great, but I don't have the $5K for one. Keeping it simple (hooks, chains, lets say under $300) what is the best combination of safety and effectiveness?
As always, your opinions are greatly appreciated.
Nick
roger 4400
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Nick, maybe you could make yourself a logging arch that tour tractor could pull it,s on wheels so less traction.( I use one with my ATV). Look into the "forestry forum" and do some search you will find some models you could do yourself . I know money is always an issue........till it happens....as I stated before, my tractor flipped almpost to the *no-return point*, I was looking at the sky, not the horizon , the sky ,when my engine stalled and the tractor hit the ground so strongly that the battery popped out from under the hood. IT NEVER HAPPENED TO ME BEFORE THAT MOMENT , I felt safe and believe me it happened so fast you could not believe. I was in 1 st gear, iddling it is what cause the engine to stall (luckily), any higher rpm I would not be here to warn you and the others .....things just happens I know..but if you can avoid them and enjoy life do so. (I always felt safe on my tractor, not reckless but that day I had a humility lesson for the rest of my life....things just happens...).Enjoy your tractor, enjoy logging ( I still do with a Farmi ) enjoy life AND BE SAFE. Roger
Famah
Bronze Member
Does anyone have a link for the "forestry forum"? There goes another chunk of my nonexistent free time! Thank you.
Nick
Nick
20 20
Elite Member
Very well said RoyJackson, sometimes we get tired in a hurry or just over confident. I feel sometimes the over confidence can come from all the safety devices. I'm not saying safety devices are bad but, NOTHING, nothing, can replace operator responsibility.
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Agreed :thumbsup:
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How long does someone have to do something with a particular method before it is deemed "suitable". So if 20-20 has logged with his 3 pt for 30 years and myself have logged this way going on 30 years without incident, I would rather look at it as a reasonable risk in line with playing baseball or hockey or whatever rather than terming it "dumb" . There are some people who regard such risk as "dumb" even with protective gear. Island makes a good point about individuals and the info going out . One's survivability depends on one's own survival instinct. Many, but of course not all, of the horror stories you read about happen to people with lower instincts while others are quite cagey, calculating and careful. There are people who I know that I would not suggest them driving at all and there are people I would suggest not picking up a chainsaw not because both things are inherently dangerous but being more concerned with the personality of the person involved with the risk. Knowing variables is key to lessening risks.There are other varibles to consider when logging with cuts. I'm in an area where it snows. All of my skidding is done in winter which reduces surface tension. If one is in an area of non snow, a good set up may be using the 3 pt with a small arch at the end of the log being skidded.
It is always wise to preface any advice because of not knowing the operator's characteristics, temperment, abilities and equipment. There are reasons my tractor has not come close to being in a dangerous situation when skidding just as there are reasons why Roger 4400 had a pucker moment. The "whys" of things go a long way to staying safe when being involved with risk no matter what the degree one wishes to partake in whether going 300 mph in AA/fuel vehicle or going lion hunting while naked armed only with a knife. The higher degree of risk, the more the whys become important until you reach a point of saying the most important why of all...."why am I doing this" That point varies for everyone.
It is always wise to preface any advice because of not knowing the operator's characteristics, temperment, abilities and equipment. There are reasons my tractor has not come close to being in a dangerous situation when skidding just as there are reasons why Roger 4400 had a pucker moment. The "whys" of things go a long way to staying safe when being involved with risk no matter what the degree one wishes to partake in whether going 300 mph in AA/fuel vehicle or going lion hunting while naked armed only with a knife. The higher degree of risk, the more the whys become important until you reach a point of saying the most important why of all...."why am I doing this" That point varies for everyone.
Thank you Roger for your submission, I for one GET it. No log is worth your life. After being employed as a firefighter for the last 26 years i can tell you the first thing people say to me on arrival at their scene is," I can't believe this is happening to me'" . It seems people always think the "bad things" only happen to someone else.
IslandTractor
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I understand your point but would also note that you and 20-20 are survivors of this practice. The guys who did not survive are not posting on TBN. The fact that some people go a lifetime smoking two packs of cigarettes a day does not mean that there is no serious risk to the practice.
As I've stated earlier, I used the word "dumb" to insure that it made an impression on a new tractor user or a first time log hauler that might otherwise blindly adopt the practice without considering the risks. It is the type of practice that will eventually disappear just as driving without seatbelts will disappear as the public gets over the natural reluctance to change old habits and considers the costs/benefits of a new safer practice. That doesn't mean everyone who still does it is dumb but perhaps I would consider that term, lightly, for someone just starting out who studies the options and risks and still decides to do it. Put it this way, your mother would definitely give you a dope slap if she knew you were doing something risky when there are reasonable safer alternatives.
roger 4400
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I do not mean do not log, I DO SOME LOGGING MYSELF. I meant to do it the safest way possible. ( you were a firefighter, I was a police officer in Montreal Quebec for 30 years and almost got killed by humans more than my tractor
) I do some logging and will do it for a long time but trying to do it with the safest tool FOR ME. Others ( I did not want to offense anyone) do it the way they feel confortable with. I only wanted to share an experience I had 5 years ago to help other people to think of their security and to never think that it cannot happen ( sometime I have little problems explaining myself precisely in english, I,m a french talking canadian.). In woods nothing is safe, felling, logging all is dangerous but real fun. Have fun as safely as possible. Roger
