How do you say no?

[scesnick]

I have a 2.5. mile driveway and I share the first 1.5 miles with the only other land owner up here on our mountain. This is a subject that We have never discussed, it just seems to all work out. If we didn't work together on this we both would have been S.O.L. quite a few times.
2 years ago we got 52 inches of snow in one storm. We both took our equipment ( 1 backhoe and one 4wd Long with FEL ) down off the mountain. When the snow finally stopped we both met up and started digging. We went to his farm first to check on the calfs. he lost 4 during that storm. He then in turn took the next day off of work and helped me get to my house. 4 days of digging total.

The point I'm getting at is you never know when you might need your neighbors help in a big way and squabbling over some simple plowing could cost you dearly .
But, then again we never take advantage of each others generosity.

 

[George2615]

The road doesn't sound too bad (20x180) and paved too. How long could it take, besides it seat time for you.

I have two driveway entrances myself, one is the main entrance which curves around and back out to the road. That end is shared by me and the neighbor since the property line runs through the middle of that end. For the past 16 years I have plowed the shared end of the drive and his main drive too. (It's only 15 x 60 and only takes a couple passes). I have never charged them nor asked for payment (more seat time for me) yet every year they have given us a nice big ham around Christmas time. When I plow the drives I usually do it when I feel like it after I get home from my real job or when I get up if its on a weekend. I also plow out an elderly couple (in their 90's) across the street's (20 x 50) drive. (She bakes for me on occassion) I do have several other plowing contracts that pay me but with the neighbors I'd rather do my good deeds and have them feel obliged to me and not me be obligated to them. This year the neighbor figured he wanted to play in the snow too so he took his wallet out of mothballs and bought himself a MF 2300 subcompact or mini CUT w/ loader to play with and is learning how not to dig up his driveway. He's already asked me how I plowed for 16 yrs. without tearing it up and asks for pointers when he sees me outside.

My two cents is this. If you don't want to plow your neighbor I'd be upfront and tell them what you told us, that your not in the plowing business. Explain the deal that the previous owners had where both paid for someone to plow the shared road. Maybe they are unaware of this. If its just a money issue inform them that you have a tractor and don't want to pay someone else to plow, they should at least offer to reimburse you for expenses.

 

[rox]

pennwalk,
We recently experienced something similar over here in southern France. Instead of plowing snow, what is needed is rototilling up the weeds and brush in order to prevent fires.

(Side note on fires we came real real real close this summer. Ours was the last property on the west and south of a huge 3 day fire, the last property. The firemen stopped the fire just above our first row of olive trees)

My hsuband uses the big tractor the Goldini with a huge rototiller. Our back neighbor asked him to till his property, about an acre. It was hatter then H-E- Double Hockey Sticks and our back neighbor sat on his shaded patio and watched, only getting up to ask my husband to doing a large area a second time. Never even offered my husband a glass of water and he was sweating like a one armed butcher.

My hsuband was talking with the neighbor on our east, Claude, a real nice guy, and he said that the neighbor behind is the type of guy who will asks for a hand and takes your arm. Claude got tired of being taken advantage of with requests form the back neighbor, (Claud has a skid steer add also owned a car repair shop for 25 years) so he came up with a real good idea. The neighbor to the back owns a pottery business. He manufactures big huge flower pots that are used in gardens. Claude says that when the neighbor to the back asked for another "favor" he asked for one of those nice expensive pots. Claude says he is on his third pot.

We recently asked Claude if he would use his skid steer to dig up 10 olive trees we wanted to re-locate. Instead of asking for money, which my husband offered, Claude said what he would really like is about xxx liters of fuel for his skid steer. I don't remember how many liters, but it was around 150 Euros.

Claude has the right idea, it is best not to pay/receive money between neighbors for projects. Neither Claude nor we would adk for anything for samll can you give me a hand type of projects. But for big projects, especially with the cost of diesel fuel, I think Claude hit on the right idea, dont' ask for money ask for a material item or help with a project.

I saw the previous owner of our property, his son working over on Claude's property this summer. Cluade who sold his garage repaired the young mans car and in return the young man was doing som work for Claude.

Again for small stuff we jsut help each other out.

Is there something you would need help with on your property? Painting or something? How about some fuel? If you feel comfortable the next time you are approached have your item thought out ahead of time and say like Claude does, "I am pretty busy with my own projects, but I would live to help you out. It is going to take a lot of my time, would you consider bringing me back 50 gallons of diesel fuel next time you fill up?"

I like the fact that no money changes hands with my neighbors, however I do prefer to give them something for their time. Believe me for the 150 Euros we paid in Diesel fuel we could not have gotten 10 trees transplanted plus the work he did pulling out roots from a line of Cedar Trees. Our exchanges are always for less than the value of the work performed. So it is more of a gesture, than hour per hour reimbursement.

Clsing thught- My husband mentioned to the back neighbor how good his nectarines look and that his wife (me) really lives nectarines. The neighbor replied, "Oh those are for my wife and son and me thsoe are the best. If you want some here go pick some off of this tree, and the nectarines were not as nice)... So next time we are asked to help out this back neighbor we will be starting our own garden pot collection, just like Claude...

 

[Varmintmist]

Pennwalk, I think you did good.

She asked if you were for hire and you said no, than plowed it anyway for free.

You have established that you might do it according to your whim, not hers, and that you are under no obligation to do it. If you get some cookies out of it you are really ahead of the game.

I plow mine first, then I go down the road to a neighbors that drives the school bus. The state (Penn DOT, yes all the jokes have basis in reality) cant seem to plow all the way to the outside of the curve in front of their house so there is ALWAYS a pile about 6 foot wide left on the road. The road is one lane at that point because of the snow. I remove the PennDOT pile and pull 2-3 passes out of the drive and leave. Mostly they are out shoveling from the top down by the time I get there. I'm not a farmer, I was a operator, I dont get off the machine /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

They never asked, I just do it, IF I have the time before work. Her and my wife get along great, the kids get along great, the last 2 deer seasons, my deer are hanging in their back yard and the husband and I are both cutting my deer and his or their kids.

I back blade another neighbor on the way back, they are both older and I just make 3-4 passes to knock the PennDOT pile down and clear the majority of it. I only do them if there is a fairly large snow.

 

[rox]

pennwalk,
How is the plowing going?

 

[pennwalk]

Rox,
The plowing is going great. The John Deere 425 garden tractor with the 47" 2 stage snowblower does a super job. No trouble at all. As for the neighbors it worked . We just had our second snow. It hit Saturday night. I was getting a late start Sunday morning when the neighbor flagged down a plow truck to clear his driveway so it looks like I'm off the hook. I want to thank you all for your advice. The neighbors probably wish they had a better neighbor but it will probably pass in time. Sometimes I dream about moving a little deeper into the country but from what I have read here that's no gaurentee. You have to feel sorry for those guys down in Texas. One minute they are living home on the range the next they are in the middle of a new city of a couple of hundred thousand. Seems like it's happening everywhere. Country is going the way of social security. Going going gone. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Chris

 

[LBrown59]

Nobodys asked me to plow snow for them.
Of course this the second winter in a row that we haven't had any snow so maybe that's got something to do with it.