How do you say no?

[pennwalk]

My house shares right of way to road between with the neighbors on the other side of the road. The road is access to the wooded lot behind our houses. We moved in last Year and the previous owners had a deal with the neighbors to split the cost of plowing. I have a John Deere 425 with plow and 48"snowblower. Its pretty capable. I didn't want to pay for plowing so last winter I took care of the road and both driveways. Now we have new neighbors next year. They are a little younger than us and seem to be a little tight for money or at least they act that way even though the house is bigger than ours. They found out that I did both driveways and she wants me to keep doing it. It doesn't feel right to me. Its one thing to plow the driveway for your wife when you have the flu but its different plowing for your neighbors when you are sick. I'm not in the plow business and I don't want to do it for nothing. Anyway is there anyway to let them know that I don't want to plow for them without p***ing them off?

Chris

 

[beenthere]

Well, I re-read this several times, and think I may not be following what it is you are saying.
But, you did it before, why not keep doing it?
Seems it is a good way to get neighborly with your new neighbors - if you want to do that. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I would bet that they know how much money you are saving them and will remember that in the future, someway, somehow. They will be bragging to everyone they know how great their neighbor is to them, and how unselfish he is to take care of their drive in the bitter PA winter. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But you also could say, "I will hit your drive when I am out doing mine and I have the time". Then just do it when it works for you. If they don't think it is often enough, they can make a decision to do it themselves, or ask you to 'speed it up' a bit, presumably with some $$$ incentive. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I can't imagine that would tick them off.

 

[Junkman]

I would just tell them that with the high cost of maintenance and fuel that you are only going to be doing your own driveway and not theirs unless they want to pay for the service. You don't have to charge a lot, but enough that it doesn't cost you. Your time has a value, as well as the investment in the machine. If in years past, the neighbors were willing to pay someone else to do the work, then what is wrong with you being the one that is being paid. There is no reason that the money has to go to a third party that doesn't own any of the land that is serviced by the driveway. You also mention a road. Don't know if that road is cleaned by the town, or is private and the people on the road are responsible for doing the work. If it is private, then you should be paid for that also. Figure out a hourly rate for snow removal and tell them that is what the cost will be. It will be up to you to decide when and how often it will need to be plowed during a storm. I know that the shopping centers pay by the storm and at the one that I am most familiar with, any snow fall up to 4" is considered one storm, 4" to 8" is considered 2 storms, 8" - 12" is 3 storms, etc. The base rate covers anything that falls up to the 4". If there is only a 2" snow covering, the rate remains the same. This is a good way to make sure that you don't have problems later on. The only problem that I see is they might not want to pay in the end, especially if there is a 18" blizzard. I suggest that you get some money up front for at least the amount of storms that you had last winter. I know around here, if you don't pay for the last storms clean up, they don't come back the next time. Many often are at the doorstep before they even plow asking for money since they know that they can't put the snow back. In fact, some people that I know have had such a bad time collecting that they will only plow for cash in advance.

 

[mark777]

They may not understand what is involved....time, wear and tear and related expenses. If it were me I would do it one time and see how, or if they reciprocate. Any offering from fuel to a plate of cookies. Many younger people do not know how, and feel entitled.

If they do not acknowledge your generous offer of time and machinery, then the next time I would do half of their drive.
And when they inquire...my answer would be "Sorry, I didn't have the time or fuel to complete it".

Depending on their reaction, I would think their either going to contribute or your off the hook, and no feelings are hurt.

Mark

 

[JerryG]

If I read it write, you share the drive. Tell them that with the high cost of fuel and up keep of your tractor and yourself - that you think that you both need to look into getting a service to do the drive. I would bet that they would get the hint. I do several drive around my house for free, but not when I am sick. Then I just do enough for my wife to get out.

 

[TonyV]

Regardless of how you arranged things last year with your old neighbors, its a whole new ballgame now. Without knowing all the specifics, I gather that you and your new neighbors share responsibility for maintaining a common road/driveway thats between your houses. Paying and sharing the costs for someone to come in and do it would be ridiculous since you have the equipment to do it yourself. On the otherhand, you don't like feeling that your new neighbors are taking advantage of your generosity. You also stated that they may not be able to afford an outside contractor, but this may not always be the case in years to come. I imagine that being new to the neighborood, they came out to the country and bought the biggest spread they could afford, ill prepared for the environment and ignorant of the type of equipment they would need to maintain their property. I see this happen all the time...I was even a country newb myself once upon a time. No way could I afford a CUT in those days when I first moved out to the country, though I bought an 8N the second year. Fortunately for me, I had an understanding neighbor that would come over and plow my 200' driveway after seeing (and perhaps laughing at) me on my little garden tractor trying to clear snow. I did everything I could to repay his kindness...cases of his favorite adult beverage, offers of help when I'd see him outside working on his equipment, and let him pull hay off of about 5 acres of the 10 that I had at the time. As it happens, he worked days, and I worked afternoons (though I'm off all summer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). In the winter time though, once I got my own tractor, if it snowed during the early morning hours, I'd do his drive as well...and if it snowed at night while I was at work, he'd do my drive. We went on to have a great friendship, and I still keep in touch with my first country neighbor to this day...15 years later.
My point is this. Be a good neighbor, and regardless of the ultimate outcome, your gonna feel good about yourself. Let your new neighbor know that there are expenses involved in the upkeep and don't expect to be paid as if you were in the business. Ask for an occasional tank of diesel fuel, or a case of the beverage of your choice, or perhaps a home made pie every once in a while. After a few years, when they catch up with the logistics of country living, I'm sure they'll be right there to help pitch in, as I was....and then ask if its ok that their kids call you 'Uncle Chris". /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

...Tony

 

[pennwalk]

You guys are making me think(it hurts it hurts). Keeping a good relationship is important. Unpleasant neighbors can be such a drag. I don't know why it feels funny to me. Partly it is that they are younger so it seems like they should be able to handle their own drive. Partly I hate to keep people from making a profesional arangement for services. The new neighbors moved in with one of those honda paddle throwers. Kind of made me smile. Actually those little things always surprise me by doing quite a bit of work. I think if we get a real snow they will need a little more equipment. In an Ideal world they would get a nice John deere with a snowblower. She told me that her husband was alergic to grass but I suspect he just isn't into yard work. The road is 20x180 paved but getting rough. It leads to an acre and a half of woods that is owned by the recreation association. Funny thing is there is no one in charge and no one seems to know anything about it. Quite a few years ago a developer tried to get it and the township wouldn't let them change the zoning from rec.(sometimes no is good). Anyway their driveway comes in at the end of the 180' and mine hits at about 100'. It's not my road . It's not their road. It's like it isn't anyones road. But out deed says we can use it. There are lots of different ways to look at it. Do they plow the left 10 ft and me the right or maybe I catch the front half and they catch the back half. All I know is when it is snowy out I try to stay home. On the other hand when the wife wants to go she wants the driveway clear.

Chris

 

[TonyV]

A couple more things now come to mind, Chris. If this is a recreational area, exactly who all has access to it besides you and your neighbor? Are there others whom might potentially pitch in? Or if this is a township parcel as opposed to a homeowner association, perhaps the township (or for that matter the association) would at least chip in for fuel and wear and tear. In any event, it sounds like you would have to plow at least 100' of it to access your own property....whats another 80' since your already out there? If it were me, I would do it for them for at least the first year. If I found my efforts weren't appreciatied after the first year, then I might reconsider. Maybe I'm overly optimistic about what to expect from folks, but my personal experience is that most people are good people, especially country folks. Give them the benifit of a doubt, until they dictate otherwise and you'll sleep better knowing that you gave the 'good neighbor' thing a shot. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

...Tony

 

[beenthere]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( All I know is when it is snowy out I try to stay home. On the other hand when the wife wants to go she wants the driveway clear.
)</font>

I appreciate your frustration and decisions. But what you said 'above' is the answer, the way I see it. Stay home and don't plow, until your wife wants the driveway clear. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The way I would think of doing it, would be to do some plowing out for the neighbor, just not at 'breakneck' speed. Then if the neighbor seems interested in doing some himself (or herself) suggest that the tractor is available for sale. If they buy it, then you can upgrade to one of the X series and have a new one to ride. Gotta look out for yourself, except then the neighbor may do your drive while he is having so much fun, and you won't get any time on your new tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[DannyD]

I have been in your shoes, with the exception I dont share a drive. I have plowed, cut grass and many other things for neighbors. ONE has tried to pay, ONE brought a tin of popcorn, and ONE still has yet to say thanks. Everyone else was just so pleased to see my tractor with the bucket. We had one 24" snow last year.

DISCLAIMER, I never asked for a penny, never asked for a thanks never asked for a thing...........seat time, fun time in the snow or whatever.

What do I want to see......when it is grass cutting I want to help out someone who may not have the tools, but I want to see them at least make an attempt to get self sufficient, BUY A MOWER. My next door neighbor never did a thing. I asked her son the other day why he did not offer to help out on my place....trimming etc..........he mumbled something. He is now paying someone to cut the grass.

I might do this one year, but next year, share the duties, one snow his one snow yours.