How far can LEO go?

[Bird]

Here is a little something to read, its rather old news but still goes on today

Tim, I've never said there are no bad cops, no bad laws, or no bad city/departmental policies. Of course there are, and always will be as long as the only place we can find to hire police officers (or elect politicians) is from the human race. You're quoting something that tells how much money was collected in fines. Were the people who paid those fines guilty? Were the laws violated reasonble? I sure don't know. Texas has a law to discourage little towns from using speed traps for budgetary reasons. I've forgotten exactly how much it is and don't want to look it up, but I think it may be something like 30% of their budget. They can issue just as many traffic citations as they want to or can legally issue, collect as much fine money as they can legally collect, etc. but any fine money over that percentage has to be sent to the state instead of the local city keeping it.

 

[Ken]

Ken, yes, there are such websites, but I don't know enough about any of them to recommend one; have no idea what their success rates are. Go to both Bing.com and Google.com and enter "stolen property list" and you'll find a number of privately operated websites. Law enforcement uses the NCIC (National Crime Information Center) run by the FBI and then Texas (and I don't know how many other states) have their own version. I think (but can't say for sure because I've been retired too long) that most Texas police departments have their computers programmed to check both the NCIC and the TCIC when an officer runs a serial number for stolen.

I can well understand your feeling about the "lack of concern by law enforcement", however, it's usually not so much a lack of concern as it is a lack of leads or information to work on. Almost every officer I've known likes nothing better than catching a thief/burglar/robber. As a sergeant for 15 months (late '68 and all of '69) I supervised 6 detectives "investigating" burglaries and thefts. It was a very frustrating time in my career because you can't work cases like the TV cops do. I assigned an average of more than 3 cases per day to each detective. Now they had to turn in a written supplement on each case, even if it was only to say "no further information", so if 2 of them worked together all day on a case on which they had something to investigate or an arrest to make, you know what happened to the other cases, and remember, I'm going to give each of them 3 more cases tomorrow. Very frustrating at times, and the officers understand why it seems to others that there's a lack of concern.

Bird I'll take back the lack of concern. Had one police man mention that most cargo type trucks leaving after mid night usually contained frieght picked up by light fingered people only can check if something is wrong with the vehicle or driver.
ken

 

[chuckd1277]

first, let me say, awesome response. second, thank you for your service.

now to a couple questions, and questions only... ok.. maybe a lil discussion too.. I'm not insinuation or pointing a finger.

1, I completely agree with running warrants and checking legality ( expire / stolen ) of any visible tags on tow, towed, or trailered vehicles.

2, not sure if it works in your state.. but I know in florida, a LEO can tell if you have a concealed weapon permit befre he even gets to your window.. so the car tag, must link to the driver license, which must also link to the gun license in some way. which is cool.. i'm very suportive of law enforcement, and I'd rather the leo ask me if I am carrying my weapon, than me have to broach the subject and offer that I am armed as i hand my license and cwp over.. ( ps.. I imagine a leo with a legally armed civilian is likely safer than an unknown civilian.. cwp holders, at least in florida according to the latest statistics i have seen, are among the most law abiding cross sections of citizens.. )

now down to the question.. ie.. concerning owning the load you are hauling. here's an average scenerio.. I'll use me as an example. I load up my old ford tractor with a loader on my 16' trailer has lamps, brakes, is tagged legally, etc... put it behind my old dodge.. street legal.. yada, yada.. insurance.. good license.. etc.. say I'm heading down the road to my farm to move some bales of hay I have stacked against the fence into a couple pastures for the cows.. now.. I own the old tractor... but I can pretty much guarantee I don't have a reciept for it .. and of the few units I do have that actually got a reciept.. I can virtually guarantee they won't be in my truck glove box.. they are liekly hidden away in an old file I may have made on the tractor when I got it.. or lost.. or .. well.. maybee just never got one from a private transaction, especially since we don't have to tag our tractors here.

ok.. there's the preface... i get pulled over by you.. for whatever reason.. looked like i swerved.. load didn't look ballanced.. uh.. rock jumped up and busted a turn signal after I got going.. etc.. whatever.. routine traffic stop.. If asked if i own the tractor, I'd answer yes.. if asked if I could prove it.. that would be a head scratcher... where would we go from there...?

( i'm waiting for another cool writeup like your previous post.. it was well thought out and shows good character.. .. so.. no pressure or anything... )

soundguy

Soundguy, thank you! :thumbsup:

That's pretty cool how that works in FL, we do not automatically get notified if the registered vehicle owner has a concealed carry permit. I completely agree with you on wanting to be around someone that legally carries a firearm. I wish every responsible civilian exercised their Second Amendment right to possess a firearm. I truly believe that alone would reduce crime...but that's another discussion.

As for your scenario, I will first assume that there is no BOLO (Be On the Look Out) for an old Ford tractor that looks like yours that was recently stolen. I will also preface this with the fact that I rarely stop vehicles and check numbers on towed equipment unless it matches a commonly stolen item. We have had a lot of motorcycles stolen in my area recently so if I see one in the back of a truck I might check on that. I am a little surprised that the OP hears these checks as often as he does on routine stops unless there is a high number of stolen tractors in the area. In my town it goes like this; IF i was feeling inquisitive and ran a serial number on your tractor the dispatcher would come back and say "no hits" on the serial number and I would know that it has not been entered as a stolen item. For the most part, tractors are not registered and there would be no other information available on the machine or its rightful owner, and that would be the end of my interest. I would no longer have any probable cause to further inquire as to whether you own the tractor. I will admit that I might strike up a friendly conversation about how you like your tractor but it truly would be harmless in nature, I just like talking about tractors.

 

[Bird]

2, not sure if it works in your state.. but I know in florida, a LEO can tell if you have a concealed weapon permit befre he even gets to your window.. so the car tag, must link to the driver license, which must also link to the gun license in some way. which is cool.. i'm very suportive of law enforcement, and I'd rather the leo ask me if I am carrying my weapon, than me have to broach the subject and offer that I am armed as i hand my license and cwp over.. ( ps.. I imagine a leo with a legally armed civilian is likely safer than an unknown civilian.. cwp holders, at least in florida according to the latest statistics i have seen, are among the most law abiding cross sections of citizens.. )

I didn't know Florida did that, but that's not the case in Texas. In fact, here is what the Texas Department of Public Safety recommends.

 

[deepNdirt]

Tim, I've never said there are no bad cops, no bad laws, or no bad city/departmental policies. Of course there are, and always will be as long as the only place we can find to hire police officers (or elect politicians) is from the human race. You're quoting something that tells how much money was collected in fines. Were the people who paid those fines guilty? Were the laws violated reasonble? I sure don't know. Texas has a law to discourage little towns from using speed traps for budgetary reasons. I've forgotten exactly how much it is and don't want to look it up, but I think it may be something like 30% of their budget. They can issue just as many traffic citations as they want to or can legally issue, collect as much fine money as they can legally collect, etc. but any fine money over that percentage has to be sent to the state instead of the local city keeping it.

Yes and in the end it is all about catching the fat goose, isn't it

I had no intentions of starting a thread that folks would down the LEO's
I think every LEO should have the Public support and respect, but I also think as a citizen they should look at all of us as a Posible criminal,

here is another web-site if anyone cares to lookup your city,
http://www.speedtrap.org/
These are reviews By citizens , Not by Police departments,
IMO if LEO does this then why not do what I have been asking about?

 

[two_bit_score]

You Folks should get you a police scanner and listen in for a while:thumbsup:

you might then can hear things through the public eyes
yes I do hear more things about alert for speeders on the interstate, or someone been reported swerving all over the road, or someone reports that there welfare check been stolen, I actually hear all things even crimes being reported, looks to me they can stay busy enough with actual crimes, then worry about stopping citizen's to run numbers on the property they own,
I hear it all Folks... again all I can say is get you a police scanner, then come back to this topic 6 months from now and chime in....

Like the old saying goes, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". A little knowledge is what you've got from listening to that scanner and you're trying to apply that across the board as what happens all the time and you pony hear a small slice and don't even know the full story at that.


Listening to scanners can be fun but youve let it get you all alarmed about the wrong thing.

Turn down the scanner and back away and enjoy life in reality for a while. You'll see the cops are mostly really good and doing a good job.

When you find one who has really stepped out of line I'll be right there with you bringing them to task. But, let's wait until it really happens.

 

[two_bit_score]

i would for sure not be a fan of random checkpoints and casual searches as a way of lfe... at least not with our constitution as it stands.

kinda sounds like 'travel papers' and whatnot..

soundguy

Nobody is suggesting that you do. Not one time has that been suggested that I am aware of.

 

[two_bit_score]

Yes and in the end it is all about catching the fat goose, isn't it

I had no intentions of starting a thread that folks would down the LEO's
I think every LEO should have the Public support and respect, but I also think as a citizen they should look at all of us as a Posible criminal,

here is another web-site if anyone cares to lookup your city,
Huge List of Speed Traps | The National Speed Trap Exchange
These are reviews By citizens , Not by Police departments,
IMO if LEO does this then why not do what I have been asking about?

I bet your favorite song is "The night the lights went out in Georgia". :laughing:

 

[Soundguy]

see.. another good writeup!

thnaks for the insite.

soundguy

Soundguy, thank you! :thumbsup:

That's pretty cool how that works in FL, we do not automatically get notified if the registered vehicle owner has a concealed carry permit. I completely agree with you on wanting to be around someone that legally carries a firearm. I wish every responsible civilian exercised their Second Amendment right to possess a firearm. I truly believe that alone would reduce crime...but that's another discussion.

As for your scenario, I will first assume that there is no BOLO (Be On the Look Out) for an old Ford tractor that looks like yours that was recently stolen. I will also preface this with the fact that I rarely stop vehicles and check numbers on towed equipment unless it matches a commonly stolen item. We have had a lot of motorcycles stolen in my area recently so if I see one in the back of a truck I might check on that. I am a little surprised that the OP hears these checks as often as he does on routine stops unless there is a high number of stolen tractors in the area. In my town it goes like this; IF i was feeling inquisitive and ran a serial number on your tractor the dispatcher would come back and say "no hits" on the serial number and I would know that it has not been entered as a stolen item. For the most part, tractors are not registered and there would be no other information available on the machine or its rightful owner, and that would be the end of my interest. I would no longer have any probable cause to further inquire as to whether you own the tractor. I will admit that I might strike up a friendly conversation about how you like your tractor but it truly would be harmless in nature, I just like talking about tractors.

 

[Bird]

Yes and in the end it is all about catching the fat goose, isn't it

I had no intentions of starting a thread that folks would down the LEO's
I think every LEO should have the Public support and respect, but I also think as a citizen they should look at all of us as a Posible criminal,

here is another web-site if anyone cares to lookup your city,
Huge List of Speed Traps | The National Speed Trap Exchange
These are reviews By citizens , Not by Police departments,
IMO if LEO does this then why not do what I have been asking about?

Yep, your link includes my town. But to say it has speed traps ???? Well, I've lived here five and a half years and I'm out on the streets almost every day. I have occasionally seen a patrol car parked where I believe the officer was working radar, but almost never see an officer with a violator stopped. I guess it depends on your definition of "speedtrap". Apparently any place a police officer ever wrote a speeding ticket is included in your link. Sure glad my town is a speedtrap.:laughing: In fact, I live less than half a mile from the police department.