How many carry extra magazine concealed carry.

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   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #151  
Well, he should have never shot in the 1st place.. If the person in the leaving vehicle had been the robber/shooter ,etc,.. He/she it/ was fleeing...,
A fleeing person, robber ,etc, is no threat to anyone that was there.. He would have been charged, had he shot a fleeing robber,etc. as well
Yep gotta assess and understand the situation. I have a CCL but not often do I carry. My S&W MP 9mm magazines are 17. Keep more than a few of them loaded/cycled on a occasion. But walking around definitely no extra mag but 17 capacity is... well... should be enough for all but the most rarest of occasion and then not sure it would matter at that point.
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #152  
Well, he should have never shot in the 1st place.. If the person in the leaving vehicle had been the robber/shooter ,etc,.. He/she it/ was fleeing...,
A fleeing person, robber ,etc, is no threat to anyone that was there.. He would have been charged, had he shot a fleeing robber,etc. as well

I agree whole heartly. It all goes back to trainig , and know what you can do and when to do it..It is a big responsibility.
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #153  
They would have fared better than not being armed at all.. I don't care what type weapons they had...I'm not just going to sit there and wait my turn.. I can guarantee that much..

Fair enough. I don't disagree with your premise that 'any thing is better than nothing' in some situations.

Of course we can only run 'what if' scenarios but there are really only 3 possible general categories of the effect of CCW carriers being there: The outcome was the same, the outcome was more positive (less dead), the outcome was worse (more dead).

Outcome was the same:
Not really worth discussing.

Outcome more positive:
These shooters were terrorists and likely a very different mentality than the mass shooters we have seen recently. ... ... If nothing else a few people shooting back, even if they never hit one of the terrorists, may have significantly slowed them down giving more time/less people killed before the police arrived.

Probably the most likely or maybe just the most hoped for out come.

Outcome more negative:
Really the only way for more people to be killed is if the CCW carrier started shooting people as well, likely by shooting at the terrorists and hitting other people instead. Probably everyone in the immediate vicinity of the terrorists were the first to die so the likelihood of a CCW carrier killing someone near them is pretty low. The most likely scenario would be where the CCW people missed and struck someone beyond the terrorist. This would have to happen to a lot of people to be significant in this event. While still tragic a single bystander killed by a CCW carriers bullet would have only made the situation 1.1% worse and that is assuming the bystander wouldn't have been killed by the terrorist anyway.


So, in my mind anyway, much more likely a few CCW's would have positively affected the situation rather than negatively.

This last scenario may overlook the fact that the terrorists could have opted to ramp up the shooting of everyone rather than concentrating on the few returning fire to the exclusion of the rest of the crowd. They did after all have automatic weapons, right.


It's my belief that if there were armed civilians and they went offensive it would have at a minimum allowed the Sheep to escape. Even if the CC guys shot a dozen civilians in the process and it cut the Wolve's kill in half it would have been a gain.

It is my hope that if I ever find myself in a scenario such as this there are a few Sheep Dogs in the crowd. It will improve my chance of survival dramatically.

All good responses but they all still pretty much fall into the same category: Any action is better than no action. True enough but probably in a case like Paris it wouldn't be enough to make much difference.

We are more likely to encounter multiple attackers in the future. Two, three, five or more attackers could be more frequent.

Until the entire scenario is forensically examined speculation can abound but will not be worth much. No easy answers.


.
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #154  
As to the question of whether armed people firing back at the terrorists would have resulted in fewer fatalities, I think it would. It's hard to know the bad guys mindset, they were obviously willing to die in the attack, but I think there's an instinctive difference in shooting unarmed people and shooting at people with return fire. The instinct is still to fight or flight, but it's more difficult to fight when part of your natural tendency is to take cover (flight). If nothing else it would interfere with their concentration. With no returned fire, all they have to do is reload and keep shooting instead of trying to locate the source of return fire and concentrate on taking out that threat.

When I was a cop (Oakland, CA in the 70's) we could only carry a revolver, many of us knew a semi-auto afforded us more fire power, quicker reloads etc. Some of us carried a small semi-auto backup (not condoned by the department, but they never looked either). Like most every department in the US, Oakland finally came around to using semi-autos, but it was well after I left in 1980.

I carry a P229 .40 and two additional mags (37 rounds). In the summer, a P938 with one spare mag (15 rounds). Unless I'm somewhere it's not legal to carry, I have a gun with me always.

I know it's statistically unlikely I'll ever need to shoot anyone, and that's fine. But having carried a gun most of my life, I'd feel pretty dumb if I needed one and it was home in the safe.
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #155  
I can say I'm happy that several fought for my "2nd" ammendment right, I don't take that as a small thing. If you talk to my wife she will tell you she gains peace of mind in just knowing she has a gun. Women are probably the most benefited by this right to carry. They, unlike us, feel a lot more vulnerable than we do against an attacker or an aggressive driver etc. She actually got hers before me. She is the MOST unlikely person to be carrying if you know her. I say "CARRY On". Thanks to those on here who fought for that right!

She carry's only one clip BTW so if you ever get in a shootout with a lady in a Black Rogue, it may be her and you could nab her after she unloads the first clip on you, if your so inclined. :thumbsup:
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #156  
Interesting change of advice by some Chiefs of Police: DC Police Chief: Run, hide or fight during active shooter

Would fighting back be more likely to succeed or have positive impact if you are armed or have to go hands on or throw things, grab a club etc.?

I saw the Chief Lanier interview. For the first few seconds it alarmed me because it's such a change in direction. By the time she was finished I was applauding it. I believe it to be good advice in high crime areas. In the long term I think it will change the mentality of the Wolves. They will have to anticipate some sort of resistance. That will make them more hesitant to launch an attack in crowded areas.

Whether being armed with a gun would improve your success or diminish it. I think it would always improve your success chances. But the side affect will be the late comer to the scene that is also a CC person and sees you with a gun. You might be interpreted as the Wolf. But these are the chances that must be taken if we are going to get any sort of control over this problem.
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #157  
I saw the Chief Lanier interview. For the first few seconds it alarmed me because it's such a change in direction. By the time she was finished I was applauding it. I believe it to be good advice in high crime areas. In the long term I think it will change the mentality of the Wolves. They will have to anticipate some sort of resistance. That will make them more hesitant to launch an attack in crowded areas.

Whether being armed with a gun would improve your success or diminish it. I think it would always improve your success chances. But the side affect will be the late comer to the scene that is also a CC person and sees you with a gun. You might be interpreted as the Wolf. But these are the chances that must be taken if we are going to get any sort of control over this problem.

Always a consideration and it was covered thoroughly in my professional training as well as civilian CCW. Several of the CCW classes in my area are taught by present or former LEOs. It is always a possibility whether you are plainclothes, off duty or civilian CCW and sadly has happened, so it should always be kept in mind.

My son taught CCW classes for years and was a uniformed Police Officer, his classes were several hours longer than required and he covered this thoroughly, unfortunately, I am aware of some CCW instructors who are more interested in the money than providing quality training.

Agreed, the risk/benefit has to be carefully considered with numerous factors analyzed.

With your background in the military, I am sure you saw changes in the ROE over the years with a more cautious or judicious use of force/shoot, don't shoot etc.
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #159  
This last scenario may overlook the fact that the terrorists could have opted to ramp up the shooting of everyone rather than concentrating on the few returning fire to the exclusion of the rest of the crowd. They did after all have automatic weapons, right.
.

That 'spray and pray' is somehow more lethal than single-shot execution style is a Hollywood-ism. This was not a hostage situation. They were there to kill every person they could and had ample time to walk around and shoot people where ever they hid. Reducing that window of time and/or reducing the amount of ammunition they had to execute people would only be a more positive outcome.
 
   / How many carry extra magazine concealed carry. #160  
This last scenario may overlook the fact that the terrorists could have opted to ramp up the shooting of everyone rather than concentrating on the few returning fire to the exclusion of the rest of the crowd. They did after all have automatic weapons, right. . .
They came to kill as many as possible. They can't up the shootings if they encountered return fire because they were already operating full force.
 
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