How many of you own generators and what size?

[HomeBrew2]

I've been using a Gererac 5000W unit from Costco since 1992. It will run the well pump, 3 friges full of beer and meat, some lights, PC, fans. I rarely run the furnace or a/c. I just backfeed the house thru a 220V outlet I bolted to the outside breaker panel. I also have a Honda 2000i to run my Hitachi jack hammer and HF wire welder

 

[Highbeam]

I own a coleman 5500 watt (6850 surge) with an 11 HP tecumseh engine. The generator was purchased for welding with my 220 volt stick welder plus assorted construction type projects away from power. I also use it for backup power during our 2-48 hour power outages that happen every couple of months in the winter. It works great, but is loud and thirsty. I use extension cords to power the fridge, some lights, and the entertainment center which if you add up the wattages required means the generator is about triple the size it needs to be. It was 499$ at Costco a few years ago.

"The main things I would need to run would be my fridge and my freezer plus a light or two."

Your needs are modest. Most fridges have a sticker inside of them that lists the input watts. Mine lists 750 and is a pretty typical fridge, so lets assume 1000watts for yours. Two of those fridges plus another couple of lights and a bit of reserve leads you to only needing a 3000 watt generator OR if you can manage your power, you can certainly get by with a 2000 watt generator like the fine Honda Eu2000i which is whisper quiet and easy on fuel for less than 900$ delivered. My next backup generator will be the Honda and my Coleman will be the welder genny or sold off.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I just backfeed the house thru a 220V outlet I bolted to the outside breaker panel.

I hope you have a switch to isolate your house from the power grid. Whenever there are power failures we hear reports of linemen who get the heck shocked out of them because some homeowner is unknowingly backfeeding power into the grid from his generator. It is illegal to do this in most states and dangerous as all heck too. It is a simple matter to have a cutover switch installed.

 

[3RRL]

I've got 3 generators. A small 3500 Coleman used around camp and a larger Generac 5550 Wheelhouse used for welding and the well pump. Both of those are portable. Then I have a large Cummins 20kW Industrial back up generator. It's tied into an off-grid solar power system that mainly charges the batteries if there is not enough sun to charge them, but designed to run the entire house in case of an outage. (The house is not built yet)

 

[SkyPup]

Honda 2000i, Honda 3000i, and 13kW PTO genny, use them all for various purposes.

 

[Jagmandave]

I have an 8,500 cont/12,000 surge Generac with a B&S 14hp single and like Eddie says, it's pretty loud but not too too thirsty. It has the idle back feature, which helps when the load is off, but just about anything more powerful than a light bulb's draw causes it to speed up again. Mine has a 50 amp 220v outlet that's great for the welder, seems to do just fine. I bought it as a backup for the new house I haven't built yet, but I have strong memories of a few years ago when my neighborhood lost power for over a week, so I'm glad to have it. (Funny thing is, that time my 'hood lost power, mine and 3 other houses on the block were still "lit" the whole time, everthing else for miles was dead!)

 

[_RaT_]

I hope you have a switch to isolate your house from the power grid. Whenever there are power failures we hear reports of linemen who get the heck shocked out of them because some homeowner is unknowingly backfeeding power into the grid from his generator. It is illegal to do this in most states and dangerous as all heck too. It is a simple matter to have a cutover switch installed.

I've heard that but never verified it with a lineman. My guess is that if you attempted to backfeed into the utility supplied power, you would instanly overload the generator since every home is still tied in and every load waiting for power. This of course would be directly proportional to the number of homes affected. Just the starting load of refrigerators of in all those homes would probably make a 500KW take a dump. I cannot imagine what the in rush current must be when they re-energize the lost power, it must be huge. You are right though, it is critical that you disconnect from the utility power.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

_RaT_ can't say that I have verified it either. But when we were blacked out for a week the utility company started sending people out after about 4 days to make sure people would turn their generators off, or make sure they were isolated from the grid, while the crews worked in the area! I can't imagine they would go door to door to do that if it was NOT a real hazard.

 

[Dhill]

I have a 10K Coleman (Honda engine) whole house gen as back up for utilities. I'm off-grid so I don't need a transfer switch. I tucked my generator behind the shed to further diminish sound pollution. The generator unit is insulated for sound output also. But it's a 3600 rpm unit and it's going to make noise. I don't like listening to vacuum cleaners and that's about how much noise this thing makes. The 3600 rpm is designed to run for about 10 hours without shut down. Mine is propane fueled. I rarely run it for more than an hour and I've had nothing but good use out of it. If I had a need for a generator to run 24/7 for an extended period of time, I would most definitely get a diesel 1800 rpm unit. Generally, they are more expensive than 3600 rpm units (though I have heard of them being built for much less), but they are quieter and can be run for longer periods of time.
I also have a portable Coleman 3500 watt genny that I bought at Lowes. Before I hooked up my 10K, I used the 3500 as my back up. I ran air-conditioning as well as the rest of my household needs with it through the hot Texas summer, and it functioned just fine. It would last about 1 1/2 - 2 hours on a gallon of gas. It's quite a pain filling the tank up to run for an extended period, but it would handle the loads okay (refrigerator, lights, window a/c unit). I would not use the portable for extended usage genny either. And as others have said, if you get a whole-house genny, be sure to get the transfer switch. I would be willing to bet that if you have code restrictions in your area, that a grid tied genny would have to have a transfer switch before it would pass code.

 

[caylor]

I have two generators. One is a 5500 watt 11HP Tecumseh engine Coleman "Maxa ER" generator like Highbeam's it is LOUD and thirsty as he mentioned. I used it to provide back up power and to run my tombstone welder.

All of our appliances in our home are electric so we did the extension cord thing and cold showers during outages for a while. I learned through those outages that NOTHING kills the survival spirit like taking a cold shower in the morning when it is below freezing and the ambient temperature in your house is in the 45-55 deg range. (Bear with me you northerners, I am Texas boy).

So I now have a Miller Bobcat 250 Welder/Genset 10,500 W which is large enough to power the majority of the circuits in the house. I just need to get an electrican over to wire up a transfer switch.

 

[HomeBrew2]

I hope you have a switch to isolate your house from the power grid.

Of course! It's the MAIN breaker. Everybody in sunny Kalifornia has one on their breaker box as far as I know.

It is illegal to do this in most states ...

Key word here is, "most". My research indicates that it is legal here. Furthermore, I notified my utility company last time the power went off that I would be connecting my portable generator, just for giggles, to which they replied, simply, "please make sure you turn off your main breaker".

... dangerous as all heck too.

Hmmm, well, some folks are scared of a lot more stuff than I. I protect my self and equipment as well as the safety of the linemen by simply putting the main breaker in the off position when my generator is connected.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

And as others have said, if you get a whole-house genny, be sure to get the transfer switch. I would be willing to bet that if you have code restrictions in your area, that a grid tied genny would have to have a transfer switch before it would pass code.

I hate to harp on this but I'd bet that more portable generators are wired improperly than any other type. Anytime there is a power outage and you backfeed a generator into your electrical panel there is a strong chance that you are sending some stray electrical current out to the power grid. This is not an issue if you run extention cords to the generator. But many people run a cord from the generator and backfeed the power through a circuit (often a 60 amp breaker for something like their whole house AC) during a power failure.

Hmmm, well, some folks are scared of a lot more stuff than I. I protect my self and equipment as well as the safety of the linemen by simply putting the main breaker in the off position when my generator is connected.

I have been told by an electrician (and I don't know this to be true) that even if you flip the house breaker off you can still backfeed through the neutral wire into the power grid if you are running a generator into your power panel through a breaker. Its not a big deal to have a cut over switch installed to isolate you from the grid.

A quick Google search for "portable generator california regulations" turned up this . . .

GENERATORS
If you have acquired a portable generator to be used in the event of a power outage you must, by State Law, inform the Edison Company. Edison cautions that special care be taken when patching the generator into the home's main power system. Improper hook-ups may send current backwards through the Edison Company's lines and become high voltage as it passes through transformers.You can reach Edison by calling (800) 655-4555.


This high voltage would be present in an otherwise downed circuit and may cause electrocution to worker s repairing the circuit. A qualified electrician should perform this work to prevent damage to your electrical system or Edison's transmission facilities.​

 

[_RaT_]

_RaT_ can't say that I have verified it either. But when we were blacked out for a week the utility company started sending people out after about 4 days to make sure people would turn their generators off, or make sure they were isolated from the grid, while the crews worked in the area! I can't imagine they would go door to door to do that if it was NOT a real hazard.

Even the possibility that it could happen is enough. I know with high voltage (12,000 volt) they don't even mess with the wires (with their hands) until they ground each line out.

 

[schmism]

5K watt colman with kohler.

bought in 99, Loud sombitch but gets the job done.

Ive had trouble with the carb as im an idiot and never remember to empty the gass out of it when im done so it sits and gums up.

 

[BillyP]

I've heard that but never verified it with a lineman. My guess is that if you attempted to backfeed into the utility supplied power, you would instanly overload the generator since every home is still tied in and every load waiting for power. This of course would be directly proportional to the number of homes affected. Just the starting load of refrigerators of in all those homes would probably make a 500KW take a dump. I cannot imagine what the in rush current must be when they re-energize the lost power, it must be huge. You are right though, it is critical that you disconnect from the utility power.

RaT, I questioned an AEP lineman last year. My question was can I back feed my house with a generator as long as I flip the MAIN breaker off. His answer was, without blinking an eye, yes.

I mentioned that I've always heard that power companies don't want you back feeding...

He said the reason is, some people forget to turn the main breaker off and send power on down the line. So to be on the safe side of human error, the power company says not to do it. As long as you flip the main off, you are good to go.

 

[HomeBrew2]

... I have been told by an electrician (and I don't know this to be true) that even if you flip the house breaker off you can still backfeed through the neutral wire into the power grid if you are running a generator into your power panel through a breaker. ...

I have been told by an electrician that that is an urban myth. Additionally, I found several references to that topic on lineman's forums which also debunked it. On a practical note, if the juice could leak out, why doesn't it leak IN and incinerate me when I have my bare hands all over the bare wires and buss bars when I'm wiring something in the box (with the main breaker off)?

A quick Google search for "portable generator california regulations" turned up this . . .

Of course, I'm already aware of that quote, but maybe you have enlightened some others. A little more in depth search should have revealed to you that, while using a generator in the fashion in question is NOT ILLegal, the utility may bring civil action against anyone whose equipment injures a utility. worker.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

the utility may bring civil action against anyone whose equipment injures a utility. worker.

I don't know why you are seemingly taking this discussion so personally but I really don't care what you do in California and I certainly am not going to go digging deeply into your state laws to prove anything. I simply am trying to keep people reasonably safe and throwing out a cautionary note.

Personally I choose to error on the side of safety, I don't want to electrocute anyone.

While you state that the linemen's forums may debunk what I wrote, all I did was copy a quote from some municiple code in California. If that code is an urban legend then why is there a law that allows the utility company to bring civil action against people who's equipement injures their employees? No need to answer, it was a rhetorical question.

 

[Shimon]

On a practical note, if the juice could leak out, why doesn't it leak IN and incinerate me when I have my bare hands all over the bare wires and buss bars when I'm wiring something in the box (with the main breaker off)?

The problem arises because your main breaker only shuts off the two hot wires. The neutral wire is always connected to the power company unless you pull the meter.


What can happen is that you have a fault to ground but if your grounding wiring isn't up to snuff then the fault will travel back up the neutral which can shock a lineman. However, in most cases the generator cb will trip before anything bad happens...but it is still possible.

Remember, if you use your main breaker as a shut-off then you are not really shut-off from the power company. You need to have a switch that shuts off both hot wires and the neutral.

 

[BillyP]

Bob, I guess I'm missing something here? You copied and pasted...

GENERATORS
If you have acquired a portable generator to be used in the event of a power outage you must, by State Law, inform the Edison Company. Edison cautions that special care be taken when patching the generator into the home's main power system. Improper hook-ups may send current backwards through the Edison Company's lines and become high voltage as it passes through transformers. You can reach Edison by calling (800) 655-4555.

I don't think Homebrew ever said the code was urban legend?

 

[Dusty]

I have a propane fueled Winco 8 KW with a Tecumseh OH18 engine. It spins at 3600 RPM and is quite noisy. I have owned it since we built the home in 1982 but never hooked it up till about 2 years ago. Haven't needed it since it has been hooked up, so it just sits idle in the garage. It is set up with an automatic transfer switch and it has a built in battery charger for starting. I like the Winco generator, but I hate the Tecumseh engine.
Dusty