How many of you own generators and what size?

[HomeBrew2]

I hope you have a switch to isolate your house from the power grid.

Of course! It's the MAIN breaker. Everybody in sunny Kalifornia has one on their breaker box as far as I know.

It is illegal to do this in most states ...

Key word here is, "most". My research indicates that it is legal here. Furthermore, I notified my utility company last time the power went off that I would be connecting my portable generator, just for giggles, to which they replied, simply, "please make sure you turn off your main breaker".

... dangerous as all heck too.

Hmmm, well, some folks are scared of a lot more stuff than I. I protect my self and equipment as well as the safety of the linemen by simply putting the main breaker in the off position when my generator is connected.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

And as others have said, if you get a whole-house genny, be sure to get the transfer switch. I would be willing to bet that if you have code restrictions in your area, that a grid tied genny would have to have a transfer switch before it would pass code.

I hate to harp on this but I'd bet that more portable generators are wired improperly than any other type. Anytime there is a power outage and you backfeed a generator into your electrical panel there is a strong chance that you are sending some stray electrical current out to the power grid. This is not an issue if you run extention cords to the generator. But many people run a cord from the generator and backfeed the power through a circuit (often a 60 amp breaker for something like their whole house AC) during a power failure.

Hmmm, well, some folks are scared of a lot more stuff than I. I protect my self and equipment as well as the safety of the linemen by simply putting the main breaker in the off position when my generator is connected.

I have been told by an electrician (and I don't know this to be true) that even if you flip the house breaker off you can still backfeed through the neutral wire into the power grid if you are running a generator into your power panel through a breaker. Its not a big deal to have a cut over switch installed to isolate you from the grid.

A quick Google search for "portable generator california regulations" turned up this . . .

GENERATORS
If you have acquired a portable generator to be used in the event of a power outage you must, by State Law, inform the Edison Company. Edison cautions that special care be taken when patching the generator into the home's main power system. Improper hook-ups may send current backwards through the Edison Company's lines and become high voltage as it passes through transformers.You can reach Edison by calling (800) 655-4555.


This high voltage would be present in an otherwise downed circuit and may cause electrocution to worker s repairing the circuit. A qualified electrician should perform this work to prevent damage to your electrical system or Edison's transmission facilities.​

 

[_RaT_]

_RaT_ can't say that I have verified it either. But when we were blacked out for a week the utility company started sending people out after about 4 days to make sure people would turn their generators off, or make sure they were isolated from the grid, while the crews worked in the area! I can't imagine they would go door to door to do that if it was NOT a real hazard.

Even the possibility that it could happen is enough. I know with high voltage (12,000 volt) they don't even mess with the wires (with their hands) until they ground each line out.

 

[schmism]

5K watt colman with kohler.

bought in 99, Loud sombitch but gets the job done.

Ive had trouble with the carb as im an idiot and never remember to empty the gass out of it when im done so it sits and gums up.

 

[BillyP]

I've heard that but never verified it with a lineman. My guess is that if you attempted to backfeed into the utility supplied power, you would instanly overload the generator since every home is still tied in and every load waiting for power. This of course would be directly proportional to the number of homes affected. Just the starting load of refrigerators of in all those homes would probably make a 500KW take a dump. I cannot imagine what the in rush current must be when they re-energize the lost power, it must be huge. You are right though, it is critical that you disconnect from the utility power.

RaT, I questioned an AEP lineman last year. My question was can I back feed my house with a generator as long as I flip the MAIN breaker off. His answer was, without blinking an eye, yes.

I mentioned that I've always heard that power companies don't want you back feeding...

He said the reason is, some people forget to turn the main breaker off and send power on down the line. So to be on the safe side of human error, the power company says not to do it. As long as you flip the main off, you are good to go.

 

[HomeBrew2]

... I have been told by an electrician (and I don't know this to be true) that even if you flip the house breaker off you can still backfeed through the neutral wire into the power grid if you are running a generator into your power panel through a breaker. ...

I have been told by an electrician that that is an urban myth. Additionally, I found several references to that topic on lineman's forums which also debunked it. On a practical note, if the juice could leak out, why doesn't it leak IN and incinerate me when I have my bare hands all over the bare wires and buss bars when I'm wiring something in the box (with the main breaker off)?

A quick Google search for "portable generator california regulations" turned up this . . .

Of course, I'm already aware of that quote, but maybe you have enlightened some others. A little more in depth search should have revealed to you that, while using a generator in the fashion in question is NOT ILLegal, the utility may bring civil action against anyone whose equipment injures a utility. worker.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

the utility may bring civil action against anyone whose equipment injures a utility. worker.

I don't know why you are seemingly taking this discussion so personally but I really don't care what you do in California and I certainly am not going to go digging deeply into your state laws to prove anything. I simply am trying to keep people reasonably safe and throwing out a cautionary note.

Personally I choose to error on the side of safety, I don't want to electrocute anyone.

While you state that the linemen's forums may debunk what I wrote, all I did was copy a quote from some municiple code in California. If that code is an urban legend then why is there a law that allows the utility company to bring civil action against people who's equipement injures their employees? No need to answer, it was a rhetorical question.

 

[Shimon]

On a practical note, if the juice could leak out, why doesn't it leak IN and incinerate me when I have my bare hands all over the bare wires and buss bars when I'm wiring something in the box (with the main breaker off)?

The problem arises because your main breaker only shuts off the two hot wires. The neutral wire is always connected to the power company unless you pull the meter.


What can happen is that you have a fault to ground but if your grounding wiring isn't up to snuff then the fault will travel back up the neutral which can shock a lineman. However, in most cases the generator cb will trip before anything bad happens...but it is still possible.

Remember, if you use your main breaker as a shut-off then you are not really shut-off from the power company. You need to have a switch that shuts off both hot wires and the neutral.

 

[BillyP]

Bob, I guess I'm missing something here? You copied and pasted...

GENERATORS
If you have acquired a portable generator to be used in the event of a power outage you must, by State Law, inform the Edison Company. Edison cautions that special care be taken when patching the generator into the home's main power system. Improper hook-ups may send current backwards through the Edison Company's lines and become high voltage as it passes through transformers. You can reach Edison by calling (800) 655-4555.

I don't think Homebrew ever said the code was urban legend?

 

[Dusty]

I have a propane fueled Winco 8 KW with a Tecumseh OH18 engine. It spins at 3600 RPM and is quite noisy. I have owned it since we built the home in 1982 but never hooked it up till about 2 years ago. Haven't needed it since it has been hooked up, so it just sits idle in the garage. It is set up with an automatic transfer switch and it has a built in battery charger for starting. I like the Winco generator, but I hate the Tecumseh engine.
Dusty