How much gravel under concrete?

   / How much gravel under concrete? #1  

Mosey

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Conifer, Colorado
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2000 New Holland TC29D with 7308 FEL, and top & tilt. 1950 John Deere B. 1940 Farmall A.
How thick should I put a layer of gravel that I will (someday) pour concrete over? What is the minimum thickness and what is the maximum thickness (if there is one)? It will be at least a year, maybe 2, before the concrete is poured over it.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #2  
Usually you don't pour concrete over gravel. Is it a building site? The site will probably have to be prepped. We always scrape off whatever is there and then level it. Sometimes we had to use sand to get the sight level.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #3  
It depends on what it is for and how much weight it will have on it. In any case you want to use something that will compact like crusher run and not just gravel.

For something like garage 8" of compacted stone and 4" of reinforced concrete would be a minimum and 12" or stone and 6" of concrete would hold just about anything. Somewhere in that range will work for just about anything you want.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #4  
All residential garages I've ever seen have never been more than 4 inches of concrete. Of course if I was doing my own the extra cost for 6 inches may be worth it. I would also use the fiber mesh concrete, well worth the small added cost. With it you supposedly don't need the mesh or rebar but again, I think overkill is better and I'd use it anyway. As far as the gravel base that's what I've always seen used (not running crush which I think would be more prone to frost heeves in above grade applications. Course if you're in florida or texas that's kind of moot!)and would use at least the same amount of gravel as the concrete. More important is good compaction of the base BEFORE you put the gravel down, then good compaction of the gravel itself. Better to do it in two "lifts", compacting between each one. Iv'e never seen sand used as a base for a concrete pour but maybe that's different for different parts of the country. Check out some of the concrete websites - lot of good info out there.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #5  
everything you ever wanted to know about concrete and then some!! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.concrete.com/forum/forum.htm>http://www.concrete.com/forum/forum.htm</A>
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #6  
My 24 X 28 garage in Vt. is almost done. What I did was to peel off the sod and put in about 40 yds of sand to level the pad above ground level for drainage. Of course that properly relates to building on top of ledge,slope etc. The important thing is what ever material you use compact the heck out of it. I rented a plate compacter for a couple of days and also used a sprinkler system to put water on the sand to pack it down.
Good Luck!!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / How much gravel under concrete?
  • Thread Starter
#7  
This is for a pole barn/garage site. I'm planning on a 6" thick concrete floor. Nothing heavier than a full size truck or a Suburban will go in it.

There is no sod, I have it built up with fill dirt (clay), which was hauled in 2 years ago. So, it's pretty much settled now. I thought it was pretty level, but checked it with a line level and it's about 10" low on one side. I was going to put just 3" or so of gravel over the whole thing, but now I either need to get some more fill dirt for the low end, or just make up the difference with the gravel. That means I would have 13" of gravel on the low side and just 3" of gravel on the other side. I'll put more fill dirt/top soil around it to contain it, and plant either grass or crown vetch.

I talked to a place that sells gravel and stuff and they recommend a #53, which has lime in it so it will pack down. Is that the same as "crusher run"
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #8  
I beleive he meant fill dirt, as opposed to say.. white sand, etc. And for instance, here in florida, he use fill for our slab bases.
I personally wouldn't use gravel in a situation where I wanted compaction. Grab a handfull of small marsh mellows in one hand, and a handfull of roller bearings or bb's in the other hand. Squeeze both well. While the bb's will consolodate, there will be no compaction... the marshmellows compact and fill air voids, etc.

Soundguy
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #9  
Let me try to clear up a few things here about subbase for a concrete pour. The object is to get a base which is as incompressible as possible yet provides drainage. Gravel best suits this task. Not just ordinary gravel. What is needed is processed gravel of the type that your county will put on its gravel roads. This gravel has a wide gradation of material size including some clay fines. Under proper compaction techniques, ie. plate compactor and correct amount of water, a well compacted gravel base will feel like concrete itself.

Never use the original material excavated from the site as fill to raise the grade. It usually contains soils(organics) which will continue to compress and squeeze out under load, particularly if water is present.

A minimum thickness is 4-6 inches of well compacted gravel should be your target. Any more depth of gravel is ok with the proviso that it be well compacted. That means putting it down in thin layers and compacting the *&$%$# out it each time.

When you are ready to pour your slab after a couple years check the grade and maybe put in a little more gravel if you need it.

Sound guy. Your are quite correct in that you want to eliminate as many air voids as possible. What you need is incompressible material(rock) that fills voids with various sizes of diameter fitting in between the larger ones. And not a material that simply squeezes.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete?
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Well, I had 10 yards (15 tons) of #53 limestone delivered yesterday. It has a lot of limestone "powder" and the guy said it will pack real good.

I was going to have him dump it right on the site, but it was too muddy to get all the way to it (he got stuck trying and I had to call my neighbor to come over with his bigger tractor to pull him out after he dumped the load). I guess it's just as well, since now I can shove the fill dirt around until it's level, so I'll have an even 6" layer of the limestone. I'll only have to move the limestone about 20', so that's not too bad.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #11  
Mosey, would you mind taking a picture or two to share with us?

Thanks
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #12  
<font color=blue>Sound guy. Your are quite correct in that you want to eliminate as many air voids as possible. What you need is incompressible material(rock) that fills voids with various sizes of diameter fitting in between the larger ones. And not a material that simply squeezes.

<font color=black>Very true. Using marshmellows was probably a bad choice of analogy for the situation... cerial would have been better. I was mainly trying to point out, as you did so eloquently, was the need to get rid of the air voids. Fines do that well.
Here in florida, we have so many different road construction process, it is hard to keep track of them all. For instance, in te county where I work, the county policy is no more slag roads out to bid by contractors, but that county road maint. crews can make them. Where as in say.. putnam county, the county is so poor, that their infrastructure is still mainly in place from the early 50's, and they are still using a large percentage of dirt roads, and roads constructed by the army corp. of eng's... heck.. they can hardly afford slag.. and regrading is just prolonging their eventual need for infrastructure improvements.
When we do DOT work sometimes, we use a metod called black base.

Esentially, you cut the subgrade into the native soil, and stabilize if necescary, then you lay a large lift of asphalt, instead of a subgrade material like limerock. The surface course and friction course of asphalt are applied as normal.
The cost for asphalt base is roughly the same as for a conventional limerock under asphalt road, with one exception. Time. A black base road can be cut and layed as you go, whereas conventional practices can take weeks.
We do many decel lanes as black base, and can do them usually in 1 day after prep is done.. saves bundles on maintenance of traffic.. and keeps the workers out of the drivers way.

Soundguy
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #13  
It sounds like you have entirely different set of problems than our freeze/thaw in Michigan. Around here people say we have only two seasons. Winter and road construction season.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Spencer - I'll try to get a picture or two. I don't think I'll have time to get to it until after Thanksgiving, though.
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #15  
Yeah.. we rarely get frozen ground... but just enough to bust up our asphalt over afew years.

Soundguy
 
   / How much gravel under concrete? #16  
Here in New Hampshire we have four seasons -
Early Winter
Mid Winter
Late Winter and
Next Winter ....

Brad in NH
 
   / How much gravel under concrete?
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Here are some pictures of the limestone. This first one shows the small ruts that the truck left. Hard to believe it was stuck when it didn't sink any more than this!
 

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   / How much gravel under concrete?
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Zoomed in shot of the limestone.
 

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   / How much gravel under concrete?
  • Thread Starter
#19  
This last picture is depressing. It didn't go as far as I thought and I'm still 6" low on the right hand side (according to my line level). It's hard to tell by looking at it because the concrete slab (that the pickup is parked on) has quite a bit of slope and drops about 1' in 20'. I needed twice as much as I thought. Now I don't know what to do! I guess I just need to admit I don't have a clue about what I'm doing.
 

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   / How much gravel under concrete? #20  
Danny, what did you tell the stone supplier you needed? I've been successful telling them what I wanted the stone for as well as the area and depth I needed. Then they compute the yards and tons. Also, why didn't they back up the driveway to dump the stone?
 

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