How NOT to run a machine.

[Anonymous Poster]

I was watching these two guys operate 580E std. hoe backhoes. One was scooping dirt to move to another location. In order for him to get a "good" scoop, he would ram the backhoe into the pile. Let me tell you, if I ever get an employee that does that with my machines or the rentals, I'll have a stern talk with them english and french! I couldn't believe that he was doing that. There is a much better way to get a good scoop rather than gunning it and plowing into the pile. That's a real good way to ruin your machine and ruin it quicker. The other guy was using the hoe and when he dug up some concrete chunks, he would shake the hoe like crazy to get it out. When really all he needed to do was open the bucket more because they were not that big. It was more annoying than anything and kind of funny. Shows how much some people care about their boss's machines. I was yelling at them inside my car, that's how much I care about a good piece of equipment, even ones that I don't like, like a cat backhoe, I'd still be mad. Just don't do it to mine!!

Blake
WA

 

[gerard]

Certainly sounds like guys who don't write the check for the repair bills!

 

[Taylortractornut]

When i got hired on as a an operator on my first big job not working for my older brother out of 5 people i was the only one left at the end of the day. I asked my boss why i was the only one left he told me that I wouldnt have been there either if i hadnt ckecked the oil and greased the machine. I hated watching our loader operator run the new WA250 Wheel loader because when he was removing piles hed ram them, or leave with a half a bucket full. The way ive learnd in a 4 wheel drive machine like a loader is when your bucket enters the pile slightly curl the bucket, and raise the bucket going forward it maximizes traction,and eliminats excesive wheel spin. I have only intenionally killed 2 machines One was a 9 wheel soil and asphault roller for the county. It was an accident waiting to happen and they didnt want to fix it. I wanted to convert it to pull behind a mower tractor for road mainenance. The second was there rented excavator that was an old Koehhring Bantam that had the old mechanical drive. The list was long on it no left steering Brake, every 2 hours it needed 15 gallons of hydro fluid, smoked, no muffler, old foot bedal for the bucket and stick that usually hung up. My boss rented and excavator from the rental store, the manager had sent this hunk of crap to run when we were paying the same rent for a 312 Cat. They said they wanted to keep the hours down on the Cat since it was new and only a major break down on the Koehring would get me the Cat. I figured let the detroit idle and it would leak its oil out, had the only detroit that didnt leak lol. I eventually broke the stick out of it. My boss and i figured the cost of the lost labor and man hours of having to stop and refill the oil tanks, and all the old frayed lines. And the job delay of the slower weaker machine not being able to put in the 1000 per day minimum of pipe. Overall downtime cost us between 1500 and 3000 dollars those 3 days. But on the bright side the Koering was retired to work in the scrap yard as a magnet crane.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I do the same thing, but if it's really heavy materlial like 5/8- or something, I'll go in, role the bucket back, then I'll role the bucket down like I'm dumping, push down so I lift the backhoe up, then curl the bucket back in, and repeat as needed. This is very quick and it gets a nice full yard in with the help of the diferencial lock, it's better than that other technique. It's a little hard to describe what I meant up there but you might get the picture. I always grease my machine, I even drain some of the bad thick dirty fuel out everytime I fuel up basically. Keeps the machine running a little better. Unfortunately, my boss won't get side panels to put on the side of the engine. Why, I don't know but we go through a heck of a lot of filters because of the bark particals clogging up the fuel and limiting the backhoe's feed of fuel. It causes the backhoe to jump in throttle a lot, like I'm reving (sp?) it up. It's really annoying but I can't do anything about it. It's their machine. Sadly....

Blake
WA

 

[Taylortractornut]

Im the same way about my old Ford hoe. Im picky about it Ive had folks tell me how to use it like a dozer but ive been an operator for almost ten years and my dad and brothers are excellent operators and taught me better. If i load dirt out of a bank ill rake down several loads first with the hoe. One backhoe I will load dirt out of a bank with is a 780 Case becaus of its solid loader arms like a crawler or big wheel loader. Another good practice if you ever own your own machine dont let anyone else rent or borrow it. I only let my dad or brother use my hoe. Ive made several folks mad on landscaping jobs because they want to give it a try and i refuse. If i operate my machine hard Ill grease it 2 times aday and blow the filter out once a week. Ive got to go tomorrow and put in an application at the local quarry there needin a new crane operator. im kinda nervous ive never had the opertunity to operate a 4100 Manitowoc, Just a 222, and an American 5299, and 30 ton Terex. Take care Taylor Lambert

 

[ScottAR]

Interesting you bring up the 680/780's construction as loaderlike. They were built with the Wseries loaders in Terre Haute, Indiana. They've got a loader rear axle, air brakes, and lots of little stuff from the loaders. My favorite older backhoes. I found a great 780 with 4n1 on Equipment trader today. Only problem is it's in CT, I'm in AR. Oh well...

 

[hosejockey2002]

Speaking as someone who has construction experience but is more or less an outsider, I think a lot of operators learn bad habits because they only learn by watching others who have bad habits. Some guys are afraid to ask questions for fear of appearing stupid, and there are probably some foremen out there who would rather just fire someone than take a little time to show a new operator proper techniques. When I worked construction I was primarily a truck driver, but occaisonally I would have to load my own truck or move material around with a loader. Rather than letting me figure it out on my own, my boss took an hour or so to teach me proper techniques in loader operation. I'm sure this hour paid for itself a hundred times over in increased productivity. On the flip side, I know there are guys who just can't or won't listen when someone tries to teach them something. These are the guys who deserve to be working at Walmart......

 

[CTyler]

As a new operator myself, what should I not be doing with a FEL and BH?

Getting a run/Raming the FEL into anything sounds bad. Bouncing/jerking the hydraulics sounds bad. There were a couple tips in the manual on proper digging but thats about it.

How do you get dirt out of your FEL went it sticks to it? The first thing you want to to is jerk/bounce it. A couple times my bucket was about 1/3 full with packed dirt. I took a shovel to it.

One of the tricks in gas RC buggy racing is spray everything with WD-40. This keeps the dirt from sticking to everything. This may sound dumb but can you wax the bucket? Or use some other means? Or is it one of those things you have to live with?

Thanks
Chris

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This may sound dumb but can you wax the bucket? Or use some other means? Or is it one of those things you have to live with?
)</font>

Chris,

A while ago I was watching a documentary on the Korean war, and someone was telling a story about how hard it was to work heavy equipment in the winter because the wet snow/ice stuck to the blades and buckets...

Until that is, someone came up with the idea of using ski wax on them. Worked wonderfully, and they used to get it delivered by the truck load...

So if it worked then for snow and ice, why not now for dirt and mud too?

Try it...you might like it! And don't forget to report back if you do... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bill

 

[rdbrumfield]

Speaking fo ramming into the pile, I watched in horror as a reserve marine with a construction company tried to take out a stump. The company was from Kentucky and was out here in Washington helping do a soccer field for a school.
The stump was about 6' dia and the mission was to take it out.
This fellow backed up and made a run at it in HIGH gear, when he connected the only thing that kept him from going over the blade was the steering levers in his stomach, now talk about diehard marine, he backed up and did it twice more before I got him stopped and had some schooling. A good bunch of fellows and I'm sure they paid attention in training, but practical experence is sometimes the best teacher.

 

[CTyler]

OMG!!!....LOL!!!!!

The voice of Stewie from Family Guy is ringing in my head.
"Good God Man...What the Ell were you thinking!!"

 

[CTyler]

I'll have to give waxing the bucket a shot then, thanks.

 

[thcri]

Just got back from Jamaica and could not believe what I saw. Ford/New Holland 2120 I think it was with a FEL. Tree stump, too tough for the tractor to move, so let's back up about 15 feet and ram the stump. I told me wife that is about as dumb as dumb gets. This went on for a while with no luck on moving the stump. About an hour later I noticed the stump was still there but the tractor was around back of the resort with the hood off of it. I can not believe that they didn't twist the loader or something like that.

Stupid is as Stupid Does


Murph

 

[Anonymous Poster]

This is for Taylor Lambert, I understand what you're saying on being careful not to let the wrong people use your equipment. Unfortunately, I'm at some point going to own my own business and when things go well, I'll be purchasing more machines and eventually will need employees. Every machine I buy I'm of course going to really like, but I'll pick my favorite bunch and not let anyone else use them. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif But others brought up a very good point that I didn't even consider, that is to take a some time and teach someone briefly on how to properly do things. That's what my boss did, I've found things through experimenting (more so using the hoe) that I like better than how my boss does it. My way is of course safe and not destructive. It's okay to take things from what you've learned by someone else and what you've learned yourself, and just use those. It's also important to stress how NOT to use a machine. Hopefully I'll get some loyal people, but when working with the public, you run risks.

Blake
WA

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Crhis...when you use the hoe and you need to get up really high off the ground for some reason, you use the hoe to push yourself up after the stabalizers stop lifting you. Then, use the hoe to slowly lower yourself. If you just lift the stabalizers when a couple feet off the ground, you run the risk of breaking something. Everything else is pretty easy. Shaking the bucket a few times fairly hard won't do too much harm, don't over do it though, in the end a shovel might be neccessary. If you travel in second gear, and your backhoe's hoe has a little too much play when in the lock position like mine, don't let it bounce around too much or else you'll break the latch or something, use the hydraulics to hold it.

Blake
WA

 

[Taylortractornut]

It doesnt hurt a bucet or boome to shake it, Most of the excavators and hoes ive been around dont have a cushioned cylinder on the dump cylinders so you can pop you bucket. My brother showed me a trick to do in the morning first thing when no inspectors were around was to pull my personal dumptruck up to the fuel barrel and coat the bed bottom and sides with fuel. Lets the clay mud fall out. The next alternative was riveting hars slick plastic or fiberglass sheets to the bottom and sides of the bed. The best thing for buckets is waste oils and fuel. We had seveal jobs in the deltal in Gumbo mud, and brother bough a used bucket and i made 2 other bucktes to modify for that sticky stuff. To do that you burns sveral holes in the bucket. Most are 1 to 2 inches and being my brother had to be right on on evenly spaced. It beaks the suction of the mud on the bucket. Here in north Mississippi we only have to dige down a few inches to hit sand, so its not a big prblem with mud.
I dont use my loader on mu Ford hoe to dig in hard ground usualy i load out of loose piles. The county hires helpers that dont know or care about how to properly dig. They break the loader boom every 2 months in a new place. I do use it when i dig a big basement after i pamp a place off to get into
it ill use it to finish out my teth marks ot places where spoil has strayed back in it.
I hear folks tell me how im gonna ruin a tire on a nail when i clean up burnt houses. I tell them a ggod operator wont wade the stuff with out his bucket down cleaning out a path. A few months ago a cleaned up a 200 foot timber chiken house that burnt and had only one front flat due to having teating out a bad valve stem on a brick.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

yes there is a big difference between operating and running(ruining) a piece of equipment.