How self sufficient are you ? Honestly ?

[Rob-D]

I see Communism defined very loosely where is seems to work, but very precisely when meant to deny failure someplace else. There are far more people in my family and far more of my family at our Thanksgiving than the size of their camps. We frown on being stingy with other family members, but don't consider ourselves communists.

Communism:



com'·mu'·nism
   [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA

noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

Communism | Define Communism at Dictionary.com

"the !Kung's emphasis was on collective wealth for the tribe, rather than on individual wealth.

This brings us back to Edward Bernays, propaganda and building societal bias. I'm not advocating communism as a system, let's understand that from the start but I do understand systems and why they fail, regardless whether that system is democracy, socialism or communism. they all have good and bad aspects but they fail because of man's flaws.
The reason this is important on a thread about self sufficiency is because it goes to the root of human survival and while democracy or communism might fail as a political agenda driven by the 'state', aspects of either, or both, can work very well in a small community of individuals who recognize the overall benefit group unity brings to individual well being. Being able to put aside negative human aspects, such as personal greed, that may doom a political ideology won't doom small group application of community survial only enhance it.

You can say your family gathering is not communism but it is a communal application where individuals all work together for the benefit of the whole even if that action is simply reduced to each individual making a specific Thanksgiving dish. Bring that action to a larger scale and you have individuals united together communally for the benefit of a greater chance for group survival.

 

[EE_Bota]

Communism:



com'ｷmu'ｷnism
   [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA

noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

Communism | Define Communism at Dictionary.com

"the !Kung's emphasis was on collective wealth for the tribe, rather than on individual wealth.

This brings us back to Edward Bernays, propaganda and building societal bias. I'm not advocating communism as a system, let's understand that from the start but I do understand systems and why they fail, regardless whether that system is democracy, socialism or communism. they all have good and bad aspects but they fail because of man's flaws.
The reason this is important on a thread about self sufficiency is because it goes to the root of human survival and while democracy or communism might fail as a political agenda driven by the 'state', aspects of either, or both, can work very well in a small community of individuals who recognize the overall benefit group unity brings to individual well being. Being able to put aside negative human aspects, such as personal greed, that may doom a political ideology won't doom small group application of community survial only enhance it.

You can say your family gathering is not communism but it is a communal application where individuals all work together for the benefit of the whole even if that action is simply reduced to each individual making a specific Thanksgiving dish. Bring that action to a larger scale and you have individuals united together communally for the benefit of a greater chance for group survival.

I seen many definitions of communism. A Google search of "what is communism" brings this to the top:

A political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs

So in small scale situations where everyone knows and loves or at least likes everyone else, resources may be dispersed based on need and provided based on ability to produce. Even that tribe's disgust with hoarding could be described with class warfare. Even in small families, disputes will often erupt about who needs and who provides. So overall I think your post would have been better without appearing to put in a plug for communism.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Communism:



com'·mu'·nism
   [kom-yuh-niz-uhm] Show IPA

noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

Communism | Define Communism at Dictionary.com

"the !Kung's emphasis was on collective wealth for the tribe, rather than on individual wealth.

This brings us back to Edward Bernays, propaganda and building societal bias. I'm not advocating communism as a system, let's understand that from the start but I do understand systems and why they fail, regardless whether that system is democracy, socialism or communism. they all have good and bad aspects but they fail because of man's flaws.
The reason this is important on a thread about self sufficiency is because it goes to the root of human survival and while democracy or communism might fail as a political agenda driven by the 'state', aspects of either, or both, can work very well in a small community of individuals who recognize the overall benefit group unity brings to individual well being. Being able to put aside negative human aspects, such as personal greed, that may doom a political ideology won't doom small group application of community survial only enhance it.

You can say your family gathering is not communism but it is a communal application where individuals all work together for the benefit of the whole even if that action is simply reduced to each individual making a specific Thanksgiving dish. Bring that action to a larger scale and you have individuals united together communally for the benefit of a greater chance for group survival.

Sounds like this thread is being HIJACKED AND TURNED POLITICAL ! This is a thread on survival keep your political opinions to yourself ! twist it anyway you want when you mention communism ,socialism and democracy your outside the bounds of this thread !:thumbdown:

 

[brin]

The title of the thread ... How self sufficient are you ? Honestly ? so I will answer that and address some comments here with my humble opinion.

I think I am quite self sufficient....ex military , hunter, fisherman and would be Indian Chief...LOL

I don't go in for any group thing....there is a difference between a natural disaster and society falling apart and moving into chaos with roving gangs of predators....If it is a natural disaster, I and my family will do all we can do to help but if it is a total collapse of society with chaos and roaming predators, I trust no one and plan B goes into effect...It will be me and my family vs. whoever wants to try us...Just the way it has to be in a situation like that...there is no trust meter you can connect folks to....in a situation where it becomes survival of the fittest...greed takes over in most people and try sleeping at night with folks that seemed OK...maybe you wake up the next morning and maybe not...If you do...maybe you have something left and maybe not...You want to take that chance...? Not me....I'll take my chances on my own..

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

The title of the thread ... How self sufficient are you ? Honestly ? so I will answer that and address some comments here with my humble opinion.

I think I am quite self sufficient....ex military , hunter, fisherman and would be Indian Chief...LOL

I don't go in for any group thing....there is a difference between a natural disaster and society falling apart and moving into chaos with roving gangs of predators....If it is a natural disaster, I and my family will do all we can do to help but if it is a total collapse of society with chaos and roaming predators, I trust no one and plan B goes into effect...It will be me and my family vs. whoever wants to try us...Just the way it has to be in a situation like that...there is no trust meter you can connect folks to....in a situation where it becomes survival of the fittest...greed takes over in most people and try sleeping at night with folks that seemed OK...maybe you wake up the next morning and maybe not...If you do...maybe you have something left and maybe not...You want to take that chance...? Not me....I'll take my chances on my own..

Exactly my point ,thank you !

 

[brin]

Exactly my point ,thank you !

:thumbsup:

 

[Rob-D]

Sounds like this thread is being HIJACKED AND TURNED POLITICAL ! This is a thread on survival keep your political opinions to yourself ! twist it anyway you want when you mention communism ,socialism and democracy your outside the bounds of this thread !:thumbdown:

I didn't make it political. I drew a comparison between survival and the importance of the group dynamic. Egon brought up that tribes are already surviving indefinitely and I introduced one showing that the group dynamic is integral to human long term survival. I'm not a communist and not "plugging communism" and I specifically cited that.

 

[Rob-D]

Exactly my point ,thank you !

You're being redundant, you've already told us that there is a point where you would sacrifice your wife for food.

 

[Rob-D]

The title of the thread ... How self sufficient are you ? Honestly ? so I will answer that and address some comments here with my humble opinion.

I think I am quite self sufficient....ex military , hunter, fisherman and would be Indian Chief...LOL

I don't go in for any group thing....there is a difference between a natural disaster and society falling apart and moving into chaos with roving gangs of predators....If it is a natural disaster, I and my family will do all we can do to help but if it is a total collapse of society with chaos and roaming predators, I trust no one and plan B goes into effect...It will be me and my family vs. whoever wants to try us...Just the way it has to be in a situation like that...there is no trust meter you can connect folks to....in a situation where it becomes survival of the fittest...greed takes over in most people and try sleeping at night with folks that seemed OK...maybe you wake up the next morning and maybe not...If you do...maybe you have something left and maybe not...You want to take that chance...? Not me....I'll take my chances on my own..

This is the basic concept of 'me and those not me', its root is in fear.
Here's how it works:
My country against your country
My state against your state
My town against your town
My block against your block
My family against your family
Me against my family

Really what we are saying with this line of thinking is that my survival is paramount to all else and I will buffer that survival with what ever group I can. It works perfectly in Rambo movies but the:

"Not me....I'll take my chances on my own.."

I is a basic fear of, first the stranger (xenophobia) 'me and those not me' and then the main fear, the fear of the unknown and the greatest unknown... death. This is what you're expressing and what Grumpy is expressing when he says he will sacrifice those closest to him for his own survival.

The trouble with fear is that it is not the best solution for long term survival. We walk down a path in the woods and step on a snake and jump back without thinking. This is instinct and the thought pattern in the brain short circuits logic and reason (rear integrative cortex) and goes right to the amygdala (the fear center in the brain). When the fear center is active reason goes out the window, it's what happened when you panicked on a test in school and your mind went 'blank'. So it's great for jumping back when you step on a snake but lousy when you want to employ reason. We already know these things about the mind so again when people start talking about 'me against the world' we know automatically they are afraid and in that fear they will function without real reason.

So now you're out in the woods, maybe you're good at it and you last for years on your own. No friends, companions and no one to love and have love returned from. What is life worth? Anthropologists, analysts and sociologists will have a field day with that!

 

[crash325]

You're being redundant, you've already told us that there is a point where you would sacrifice your wife for food.

Maybe YOU. But dann few Real Men would do that.