How soon is soon enough for Super UDT2 in Front Axle ?

[DonaldP]

I was shocked ...

L3560, 14 months old. 400 hours all on my watch, and first change of the hydraulic and front axle oil.

The 3 containers are old Pepsi plastic containers so there is no difference in the clarity of the plastic. I backlit top down above the containers with a sheet of white paper behind the bottles to show the difference in the color of the oil. I caught the oil as it poured out of the front end, and the transmission - before it hit anything else (old used oil catch containers).

The results are amazing, as are the fragments of metal and silicon sealing materials stuck in the hydraulic magnet of the ingress side of the hydraulic filters.

A picture tells a thousand words here.

I was shocked to see Bronze/Brass material floating in the front axel oil as it was drained. It was as if someone took powdered metal filings and dumped them into the oil.

There is nothing more disturbing than to see this kind of wear internally in the front axle on a 1 year old Grand L 3560 with 400 hours used around our property. We use the front loader (805) for lifting mostly IBC totes for firewood for our home, and lifting logs to cut down into rounds so we can split them into firewood.

We have also done some excavation work on a driveway of about 150ft by 20ft, removing about 60 ton of material and placing it in another area in the yard for building the barn on. I can't believe that kind of wear is from that use and weight on the front end. If it is, then we may need to do something else over using the tractor for what it's intended to be used for?

We just started mowing this summer, and had only used the PTO for a post hole attachment previous to this. The Hydro Fluid looks somewhat beat up, I suppose I would feel that way too if I were stuck holding and gripping and lifting stuff all day for 14 months!

Yes we have a grapple that we use about 60% of the time for firewood prep, but other than that it's just driving and carrying firewood for our 1800sq ft home. We also burn oil so we are not dedicating that 1800sq ft to all wood burning.

Maybe I'm just a little paranoid. What are your thoughts?

Its a Mad Mad Homestead!

 

[Midniteoyl]

Was there an initial filter change for the HST? Did it also have lots of metal in it?

That front oil does look dark though. Are you always in 4wd?

 

[ericm979]

I'd switch the front axle to a compatible gear oil. Gear oil has more anti wear additives. Manufacturers use tractor fluid because it's simpler for them.

 

[DonaldP]

Thanks for your reply...

As for the Transmission, I have a few photos I will post here... let me find them.

The initial 50 hr and 200 hr hydraulic filters were changed... By the dealer. so I have no feedback or knowledge if there were any adverse materials in those filters at the designated changes.

All I do know is what I found in the filters at the time I changed them at 400 hours.

All of this was one of the main reasons I decided to do the 400 hour service myself. With lackluster performance from my dealer, the only way I could really tell if service was complete was when new parts (engine oil filter and hydraulic filters) were changed.

My guess would be that I would have had a 50/50 chance even with my new "Authorized Kubota" dealer that they would actually inform me of the issues related to the dark wear material in the front axel oil. It may have never crossed my plate if I hadn't seen it myself, although the bill for repair (just outside of the warranty coverage period) would surely hit my plate...

I am preparing the actual old oil material to have it looked at by the Kubota Service Rep for his review within the next two weeks. It will be interesting to see both their take on this and my new dealer.

 

[DonaldP]

I'd switch the front axle to a compatible gear oil. Gear oil has more anti wear additives. Manufacturers use tractor fluid because it's simpler for them.

Eric, thanks so much for your input... I've thought about that after seeing this, but I'm kind of caught up with the old Kubota required material for warranty purposes. I don't know yet if this old material is indeed out of spec, but I'm leaning towards that based on the silver/Brass metallic paint like material that makes the oil resemble a metallic paint over a protective oil.

 

[DonaldP]

Was there an initial filter change for the HST? Did it also have lots of metal in it?

That front oil does look dark though. Are you always in 4wd?

Wow excellent point!!!

Only about 25% to 30% of the time. So the wear, if that's the case, would not be form an aggressive use of 4wd.

I'm thinking that as with all vehicles and computers, if the Kubota dealer would be able to ascertain the amount of time the tractor is indeed in 4WD? That would answer their question for them if they are headed in that direction.

I guess my concern is that a Front axle in a condition to cause this kind of "spinoff" of material into the oil at 400 hrs might be a candidate for a front axle replacement over a rebuild... if the issue is terminal.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Remember that this the fronts first change and doesn't have the benefit of filters or a cooler, so it being darker and dirtier is a given. That said, it looks a little too dark to me, thus my 4wd question.

Problem is that the only way to actually tell if its wearing badly or per-maturely is to pull the axles I believe. Best is to do as @ericm979 suggests and put the recommended gear oil in it, preferably a synthetic with high EP additives, and keep an eye on the oil color.

You also might wanna think about a little more counter weight in on the 3pt to help lighten the front axles load a bit.

 

[RjCorazza]

I switched to synthetic gear oil at 50 hours in my past 2 Kubota tractors. At 400h the gear oil looked similar to new oil, perhaps a shade darker, but I didn't so a side by side backlit comparison.

I personally would not worry too much about how dark the sudt2 was in the photo. You could send a sample out for analysis to see how it compares to similar applications that may be on file. I doubt Kubota will give you a real answer, particularly if it involves disassembly to inspect.

 

[DonaldP]

I switched to synthetic gear oil at 50 hours in my past 2 Kubota tractors. At 400h the gear oil looked similar to new oil, perhaps a shade darker, but I didn't so a side by side backlit comparison.

I personally would not worry too much about how dark the sudt2 was in the photo. You could send a sample out for analysis to see how it compares to similar applications that may be on file. I doubt Kubota will give you a real answer, particularly if it involves disassembly to inspect.

I'm torn RJ...

I believe the manufacturer has specific requirements to adhere to within the warranty period. They could just look the other way, but if the consumer has viable material to support from the onset that there were issues inclusive to the warranty period of detrimental affects of warranted parts... well then they would need to show good cause for not taking action once they were informed of an issue.

I have read law cases pointing to "under warranty" claims that the manufacturer could not repair other than with continual replacement of parts up to and until the warranty expires. In those cases, the manufacture was liable for delivering a product that was not effectively "repaired" or "repairable".

Continued replacement of parts during the warranty period did not constitute a clean warranty repair of the offending issue returning to the consumer a "no longer defective unit".

It only provided the relief of more consistent replacements of the same parts causing the issue to return again and again and again. The manufacture was found to be at fault. So, there is some protection for the consumer in light of this.

 

[RjCorazza]

My L4060 specifies either sudt2 or SAE 80 - SAE 90 gear oil for the front axle.
I guess bringing attention to a potential problem would be of benefit down the road if the axle has issues.

Other than wanting to avoid them, I am not that well versed in the legal issues surrounding warranties.