Best advice came from @bigtiller. The problem with trying to back up a wagon connected to the back end of the tractor is that's the 'non-steering' end, meaning it can't change direction nearly as fast as the steering end. Being able to change directions quickly is an absolute must when backing up another vehicle with steering. If you insist on using the back of the tractor, then everything you've learned about backing up trailers goes out the window. As someone else said, you have to make corrections earlier, and you'll find the steering of the tractor to be nearly exhausting. Swap ends to push the wagon, and you can control the front axle of the wagon a lot better, but it's still somewhat backward from what you would expect. You have to steer it to control the front axle, NOT the body of the trailer, which completely reverses what you learned (steer toward the back end of the trailer body to correct. Even pushing the wagon backward can be frustrating, but as nearly everyone suggested, practice, practice, practice. Obviously, if you can plan your route so you don't have to back it up, you're much better off. If not, having a connection device (ball or pintle) on the front end of the tractor will greatly simply moving it backward, however, you'll be on and off the tractor and turning the tractor around every time you need to back the wagon up. Inconvenient, but it's the simplest method, and usually reserved for parking the wagon at the end of use.
How to back up a pivoting axle trailer
- Thread starter Eebbee
- Start date
- Views: 41312
RonF
New member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2023
- Messages
- 7
- Tractor
- 8N
Quit all the stress and bs
.....pin the axle before backing.
Too many Kubotas
Veteran Member
And only back up in a straight line, left turn, or right turn?
Doesn't sound practical in real life.
LouNY
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2015
- Messages
- 14,347
- Location
- Greenwich, NY
- Tractor
- Branson 8050, IH 574, Oliver 1550 Diesel Utility (traded in on Branson) NH 8160. Kioti CK2620SECH
Ah, this thread has taken a life of it's own. Between dictionary's trying to decide the definition of a trailer or a wagon and truck tractors to actual tractors and everything in between. Turn the top of the wheel, turn the bottom of the wheel, use your mirrors, just look back. And people wanting to chain or pin a steering axle, I'd love to watch that show 
.
And now back to your regularly scheduled programing
. And now back to your regularly scheduled programing
rvds
Platinum Member
I did not read all the responses but I own many wagons. It is much easier if there is little to no play in the steering. In general you only need to back up straight so the secret is to stay on top of correcting the steering.
Farmer495
Veteran Member
I've never seen a wagon with a "pin" that stops it from turning. I've used dozens of wagon running gears of various makes and homemade ones over the years. One I have was new in 1940 and I just bought a new wagon at the end of 2023, rest have been all between that in age, no pins. I can't think of any application where that is practical.
No one has a front hitch around here either, closest thing are the non farmers(trailer lots) who put a clampon hitch on a loader bucket to move trailers on the lot.
8 foot wide wagon backed in a 9 foot wide alley. There is a gate 30 feet in front of door that is offset 4 feet from the door so not a straight shot.
It's all practice and backing in a curve is a lot easier, especially with a forage box or loaded hay rack as you can see the tail of the wagon.
No one has a front hitch around here either, closest thing are the non farmers(trailer lots) who put a clampon hitch on a loader bucket to move trailers on the lot.
8 foot wide wagon backed in a 9 foot wide alley. There is a gate 30 feet in front of door that is offset 4 feet from the door so not a straight shot.
It's all practice and backing in a curve is a lot easier, especially with a forage box or loaded hay rack as you can see the tail of the wagon.
Attachments
Last edited:
Peter 315
Super Member
Heavy Duty Roll-Off "Dead PUP" Trailers | Galbreath®The roll-off trailers have a lock out pin for the front axle. I watched the guy at our place use it on a empty trailer...Ah, this thread has taken a life of it's own. Between dictionary's trying to decide the definition of a trailer or a wagon and truck tractors to actual tractors and everything in between. Turn the top of the wheel, turn the bottom of the wheel, use your mirrors, just look back. And people wanting to chain or pin a steering axle, I'd love to watch that show
And now back to your regularly scheduled programing
Too many Kubotas
Veteran Member
I suppose that could work with no load, and on a somewhat forgiving surface. Like dirt. Otherwise, something has to give.
pmsmechanic
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2013
- Messages
- 4,395
- Location
- Southern Alberta, Canada
- Tractor
- 4410 and F-935 John Deere, MF 245
Before there was super B's there was A trains. Pretty well all of the A trains I ever saw had a pin to lock out the turning on the rear trailer. (We are talking semi trailers here). Otherwise they were just about impossible to back up with.
Can't tell you exactly how to do it but I can tell you a very good way to practice. Connect the trailer to the front of your tractor and back it that way. You will be able to see everything and the task is even easier than doing it looking in a mirror. Good Luck.
CH4Ohio
Veteran Member
If you somehow "pin the axle", especially on a LOADED wagon, you're going to bend the tongue or break something else. It would have to be a very robust wagon with no load to let you scoot the front wheels around without them turning.
CH4Ohio
Veteran Member
We are really over-thinking this. Go borrow some kid's little red wagon and have them show you how they have to turn the tongue to back it up when it's tied to their tricycle. It's a pain in the butt to do. BUT, it's not this complicated to understand.
Forget all this talk about backing doubles and triples and balers with wagons hitched behind them. That's really not relevant to your question and never necessary on a farm. It's always easier and MUCH faster to pull hitch pins and move things separately when backing is required.
After all this blather, I suspect you've set fire to the wagon by now . . .
Too many Kubotas
Veteran Member
Not sure I've ever seen a super B here in the states, but A trains are the normal setup. And have never seen any provisions for locking the con gear so it can't rotate the 5th wheel under the trailer.
Besides, when even I can back up doubles to some extent, it's far from impossible.
LouNY
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2015
- Messages
- 14,347
- Location
- Greenwich, NY
- Tractor
- Branson 8050, IH 574, Oliver 1550 Diesel Utility (traded in on Branson) NH 8160. Kioti CK2620SECH
I would like to see that and how well it performed, the stress it would place on the tongue and front wheels and hubs would be huge.
KennyG
Elite Member
The only way it seems to me the locking pin would work is if you could line it up perfectly so you are only backing in a straight line. Has anyone actually used one of these and can explain it?
Too many Kubotas
Veteran Member
I'd like to see the locking mechanism. It'd have to be substantial.
Jaygyver
Silver Member
To the OP, if you don't back the trailer up very often to keep in practice I would do like has been mentioned, just get a hitch for the FEL and be done with it. There are quite a few company's that either make a weld on or a bolt on hitch. So much easier and faster if you don't do it often.
I know it may feel like a cop-out but it does take A LOT of practice and you have to do it fairly often to keep it there. I think you said you have air brakes on it, you can make a spare long hose to hook up to it if needed, and I do like your reasons to keep the trailer. I kept a spare 20' air line I made up with an air nozzle on the other end when I drove truck to fill any low tires with the trucks compressor.
I drove double/triple trailers with a few 53 footers thrown in for around 45 years with a smaller freight company and I could back the doubles up no problems but the triples I gave up on. It's all I could do to back the trailers with the second "dolly" up to the third trailer and I usually gave up. It was so funny to watch some of the "old guys" back up a straight truck (ok, me too), similar to U-Haul truck, after so many years of backing up a trailer it took second or two to realize the truck doesn't bend in the middle.
Actually a lot of B-trains as well as A-trains here on the west coast anyways, most of the chip trucks use them here and have seen quite a few lumber haulers use them also. Some of the chip haulers did have a lock-out to back the trailers up but it was only used to back up straight. Never drove one only talked to a few drivers at the coffee shop.
I know it may feel like a cop-out but it does take A LOT of practice and you have to do it fairly often to keep it there. I think you said you have air brakes on it, you can make a spare long hose to hook up to it if needed, and I do like your reasons to keep the trailer. I kept a spare 20' air line I made up with an air nozzle on the other end when I drove truck to fill any low tires with the trucks compressor.
I drove double/triple trailers with a few 53 footers thrown in for around 45 years with a smaller freight company and I could back the doubles up no problems but the triples I gave up on. It's all I could do to back the trailers with the second "dolly" up to the third trailer and I usually gave up. It was so funny to watch some of the "old guys" back up a straight truck (ok, me too), similar to U-Haul truck, after so many years of backing up a trailer it took second or two to realize the truck doesn't bend in the middle.
Actually a lot of B-trains as well as A-trains here on the west coast anyways, most of the chip trucks use them here and have seen quite a few lumber haulers use them also. Some of the chip haulers did have a lock-out to back the trailers up but it was only used to back up straight. Never drove one only talked to a few drivers at the coffee shop.
Too many Kubotas
Veteran Member
Funny you mention that. For about a year I pulled a little 6-foot utility trailer behind a Chevy Blazer, in Los Angeles and suburbs.
Did parallel park, backing into regular parking spaces at work, etc. One day I didn't have the trailer...and had a hard time backing into my parking space.
60 years ago. I was state 4-H tractor driving champion. The contest involved 2 wheel trailers and 4 wheel wagons being backed into a "stall" made of metal fence posts with golf balls on top. With 2 inch clearance on each side. A skill I still have. My advice is learn to line it up as best you can - anticipate and practice-practice-practice. There is no other method.
They can be backed up, I have one. You steer it the exact opposite of a fixed axle trailer. It takes a lot more room and practice. The response is a lot slower as you have to move the tongue of the steering axle a lot to make a turn. Backing straight up is not too bad but turns take practice.
