How to cut a hollow tree?

[CobyRupert]

My sister wants me to cut a ~50 maple, about 20" at the butt, it stands pretty straight, with a slight lean towards the way it needs to fall (next to her garage). Problem is: from about 4' to 10' above the ground the trunk is hollow on one side/middle. It "seems" like there is still core wood from about 4' and down. Is there a good pre-wedge cut way to find out?. Should I use a shallow face bore cut, just in case the bottom of the trunk is hollow too? Maybe wrap the trunk with a chain to prevent barberchairing?

 

[JHTFarmer]

leave this one alone, hire a professional or push it over with a bulldozer.

 

[DT86]

It will all depends on how much room for error you've got and how brave you are. With out pictures it's hard to say though.

 

[CobyRupert]

Yeah, I knew that would be the response, but.....

 

[vtsnowedin]

I'm with JHTF on this one as it is close to the garage and all. I once cut a tree that I didn't realise was hollow at the base. Not near any buildings thank god. The wedge cut seemed normal but almost as soon as I started on the back cut the tree popped and spun on what wood was left and dropped off the stump onto my saw trashing it and putting very close to a ninty degree angle in the bar. Then after the tree whumped closer to me then I like by about fifty feet a family of five raccoons that were living in the hollow tree came out kind of dazed except for momma who was all hissy and spoiling for a scrap. A very interesting and expensive day. Take care.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

This is about as bad at it gets because there is NO real control for you sawing skills.

Last time I was able to 'flick' after some sawing with the backhoe bucket but no buildings were in the path. It was the risk for making the cut not knowing what was going to happen or when.

Be careful. Some rope tackle would be nice to have like the professionals.

 

[CobyRupert]

Yes, I'll use a rope or cable and apply some pull at the same time, as insurance that it falls where it needs to. Just worried that a cable will increase the chances of a barberchair in a hollow tree situation. Thus, it seems a bore cut might be appropriate? I did read somewhere that a 10" hollow pipe with 1' walls is as strong as a 8" solid pipe. Same with a tree, you don't lose that much strength just cause it's hollow? Just wondering if it will hinge differently or if there's other considerations?

 

[whistlepig]

In steel hollow tubes are more rigid than solid steel. Gravity is going to be your enemy here and not the hollow tree.

 

[aczlan]

Having a pro do it will be cheaper than rebuilding the garage... Unless you can take it down from the top 4' at a time, I would let a pro do it.

Aaron Z

 

[CurlyDave]

Having a pro do it will be cheaper than rebuilding the garage... Unless you can take it down from the top 4' at a time, I would let a pro do it.

Aaron Z

I completely agree. The only difference I would have is to get a pro with insurance for this cut.

The hinge a hollow tree would have is vastly inferior to the hinge in a solid tree, and the wood probably has some very unusual grain near the hollow spot.

 

[hslogger]

Hollow timber in the woods is one situation. Hollow trees in an urban situation are a completely different one. Smart cowboy will put a line on it. Really smart cowboy will hire a certified and insured arborist and get two or three bids from those of that caliber. JS the ragman with his chainsaw aint gonna be insured even though he is a nice guy. Might be the best to piece it out, then fall it. You can get a price for the full meal deal, or on the ground only, and you do the clean up. You might be surprised at really how smart you might be to have them chip it as they take it down. Chipping it as they dismantle it,they do it systematically and efficiently. On the ground only leaves you a rats nest that is not much fun to sort out and clean up.

 

[Deere Dude]

I would hook a 75' cable about 15' up the tree and the other end to a truck or tractor. Put a small wedge cut in the tree and give it a pull. It probably won't go over just yet, but may. But then start cutting in the back of the tree while pressure is being put on with the truck in the direction you want it to go. You need a driver that won't panic and room to drive ahead, about 20' or so.

Cut a little bit from the back of the tree and have him pull. If it doesn't go over cut a little deeper and try again. Do this until you hear a crack or two and see the tree tilt slightly, signal the driver to give it the gas and then back away ten feet or more. It will fall in the direction of the truck almost directly, as long as pulling pressure is on as long as possible.

I have dropped maybe 20-30 trees close to buildings and hanging way over buildings this way and as long as there is adequate pressure on it, it can only go one direction. If it doesn't land within 6" of the direction of the pull I would be real surprised.

 

[s219]

Re: the comment about a barber-chair, I think that is the least of your worries in this case. If the tree is hollow, there isn't a mechanism to create the shear stress that causes a barber chair. In fact, it's like the tree is pre-bored out for you!

The real problem with hollow trees is the lack of a proper hinge when setting up the cut. You can get a little hinge action from the outer holding wood, but not enough to bet the farm on.

I'd have to examine the tree closely before I could make a recommendation on how to proceed. So that tells me you should get an expert on the scene to check things over.

 

[Treemonkey1000]

I agree with hslogger. His advice is spot on. Now if it were me..which isn't saying much. I would be up in the tree with a strong line. A small face cut which might help me see how much rot is in the center. Then I might do a little bore cut. A lot does depend on how the tree is weighted though. They can rotate on what ever hinge is left after you start cutting away. Wind is another influence. Chain or strapping above your cuts is another thing that should be done..
Hungry tree fallers with insurance might not be as expensive as a hospital visit or mashed up buildings.

 

[jimmyj]

Dodgy bit of work. Can you plunge a small square cut all the way through at the base to see if there is good wood there? (Like a tip in square the size of the bar all the way through so you get a core of wood to examine).

I'm the cheapest guy in the world and do stuff to trees that I probably should not. That said, not having seen it, this one scares me. When I'm scared, I tend to back away from the tree.

 

[The kid]

If this tree has any mass above the trunk then you might consider hiring someone who does this for a living. The tree will need to be stripped to a straight trunk. Then removed starting at the top a section of a time till the tree is small enough for a controlled fall. Hollow trees will not fall the way to want them too due to "being hollow" If you start cutting a hollow tree with mass above it, the shear weight could cause the tree to crush downward at the cutting point and gravity takes over.

 

[CobyRupert]

Yeah Kid, it's not really that massive, it "Y's" into (2)-10"+/- diameter branches at about 10' up, above the hollow trunk part. I did consider dropping these upper "small Y's" first and then cutting the remaining "rather harmless" trunk later; but how to cut these branches that are 10' up? -Option 1) build/get some staging to stand on to get up to 10' -but who goes through that trouble? 2) Cut them off from a ladder with a helper pulling rope (this seems like bad idea as branch can take out ladder & you're standing on it w/ only 2 points of contact (feet) with two hands on the saw that's at head level, and you never cut at the right non-pinch angle - been there-done that (don't ask!) ), or 3) Put on my climbing spikes w/ a helper pulling rope (better than a ladder, but you still can't run away!)

Hmmm: I wonder if 4th option would use a "mortise & tenon" to stand on. - I'm sure there's a better official name: i.e. saw a mortise hole about 5' up and stick a 2" x 6"(or 8") wide plank in it to stand on. That way one could still jump and run if needed? I guess I need to check if the lower hollow part is wide enough to allow a deep enough "mortise" cut to do this. If not, alternative could be to drill (2) 1" holes about 6" apart and stick in a couple of rebars to stand on?

 

[aczlan]

Stand in the bucket or on a pallet on the pallet forks?
Rent a manlift ($160/day around here)?

Aaron Z

 

[bcp]

Do some searching and reading on these sites if you try it yourself:

http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/43316.htm

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/33505.htm

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=32291.0

Bruce

 

[kco]

Go to Youtube.com and search for "tree falls wrong way", and then decide if it is worth doing yourself. Plus, the videos are entertaining. Here are a few links to get started:

tree falls wrong way - YouTube <<==== This one looks appropriate

Amateur Tree Felling Gone Very Wrong.mp4 - YouTube

Tree Falls on Cottage 3GP - YouTube

There are lots more entertaining and tragic examples on youtube.

If you can safely climb high in the tree you could take it down in managable pieces as already suggested. Loop a rope through neighbouring crotches and a helper to lower the branches. Use at least two ropes to control the fall of the final large stump.