How to fix mud?

[DoneWellServices]

I'm not clear whether you're trying to build a actual road, or just a path to access some of your property. While working in the utility construction industry, I have often used hog fuel to build temporary access roads. This is what comes out of a stump grinder, and is usually very inexpensive. It's not pretty, but it works great. Similar to the chips you've put down already, it will eventually break down, but it lasts far longer and supports a lot more weight (like loaded dump truck weight).

 

[RancherGuy]

I have heard about lime being the magic elixir for mud. Does it works as well as people say? I would probably have to lime it anyways to get the grass to grow well.

My property is mostly clay. And as mentioned above, there are different types. I have a lot of Bentonite, which can absorb water, but can also sustain vegetation when conditions are very dry. Acts like a sponge. Terrible for anything needing stability and traffic, even a few tractor passes can drive water into it so that it gets soft and rutty.

I have some traffic areas where I needed more stability, so I tried a couple of test ideas. In one area, I mixed portland cement into the top, in another I mixed mason's lime (type you can buy at the home supply store) into the top. I used my tractor w/ 5 foot tiller to do the mixing. What I mean by top is that at most I mixed 3" deep. Turns out that if there is a moderate level of sand content, neither worked. For pure clay, the cement was ineffective but the lime did a wonderful job of supporting weight and resisting water absorption. Note: these areas had good drainage. An area that does not drain well would probably fail.

In a Soils course I took in school, I seem to recall that it only takes 5% lime to alter the ability for clay to absorb and hold water. I was using only enough lime to change the black clay into medium color gray.

Another note: lime changes the ph. In the limed areas, vegetation (grass) struggles to prosper - but It supports tire weight well!

 

[HawkinsHollow]

Thank you all for your responses.

Lots of great info and advice here. I am not trying to make a road, I just use this area for wood processing and storage. Now that I have it better organized it will be light tractor traffic and a pick up truck every once in a while. I think I am going to try the lime route.

 

[Henry007]

rScotty knows what he is talking about. Avoid the clays that may contain bentonite or kaolinite because they are very slick when wet and are subject to keep damp soil too mushy. I do advise you that the regular rock yard fine limestone when spread no more than 2 inches thick will quickly work into the soil and make it more firm and the grass will grow right through it. However if you are going to work the soil and make new seed bed, then you could put the lime waste in during the latter tilling it will be ok. if you have a good stand of grass now, just put the lime on top and the grass will grow through the fine lime and in no time your grass will grow through it and will need mowing again.

 

[Bobrown14]

You can use clay but you need to arrange for drainage away from the pad downhill.

The WW2 era airfield mentioned is a good example. I've spent many days and nights camping on one in Rhode Island and when it rains hard there will be flooding but there are drainage ditches all around the old air strip that would fill with water until it drained away in a few hours.

That airstrip where we camp is clay. and the roads are asphalt and are what we use to drive on to get to designated camping areas. I've spent a few nights in hurricanes there. The well drained clay areas stay pretty solid. The water runs off due to a proper grade to the drainage ditches. It was built by the army core of engineers same as the dykes in New Orleans and surrounding areas which are also clay.

Clay is made up of anions and cations and those are the "glue" that hold the clay particles together (and store nutrients and minerals). They hold a chemical charge similar to a magnet. Water has neither a positive or negative charge so it will naturally want to roll off the hard clay... like hard pan soil.Water runs off naturally off the hard pan which is basically a clay layer without any soil organic matter.

I can run my tractor right across the hard pan after a rain, until I get to a low spot then its all big muddy mess. The reason is the rain washed off the soil organic matter off the clay and it collected in the low areas and that process helps break down the hard pan clay due to the charge in the particles of clay that naturally want to attract to the soil organic matter (tree bark mulch is one). That with bacteria and fungi help aerate the soil creating a soft soil layer instead of the hard pan clay.

Imma soil geek sorry for the rant....

Can use clay but grade and set drains and roll it.

 

[mgstevens]

Adequate drainage and rock. There really are no shortcuts.

 

[benbentley]

I have a landing at the property that I mostly use for wood cutting and storage. It is about 1/4 acre. When I bought the property it was unusable because it was too sloped, full of ruts, chunks of concrete fill etc. A couple of years ago I got hooked up with some nice clay fill and filled it in and now it is a very nice useable space. The clay is pretty tight and does not perc very well. After I got done filling I laid a bunch of free oak wood chips on it to make it so it wasn't a quagmire and add organics into the clay. That worked for a while until the chips broke down. Last winter it was pretty sloppy, but manageable. I just spent the day there reorganizing my wood operation and laying more chips. After running the tractor over it all day it again got pretty sloppy and rutted out. I want to fix this!

My initial goal was to plant grass on this landing after the first layer of chips broke down. Will planting grass on this area be enough to dry it up and keep it from getting so sloppy after a rain? Will the roots add more structure to the soil and keep it from turning into a rutted out sloppy mess when its wet or do I need to do more?
Sand? Lime? Aggregate?
Help!!

The first item to complete is make sure you have good drainage. If water is standing or draining too slow, it will stay too long. As you mentioned, clay doesn’t perk well. Either dome the entire 1/4 acre or put in some swales. If you can work the surface to drain better and add some 7-8 gravel to the clay it should provide you with an adequate work surface. Well drained clay and gravel will harden.

 

[Rustyiron]

Very interesting to learn about clay from those (edicated) here.
I only know the clay in the mid Atlantic region that stuck to my boots and wore out my knees among other inconveniences.

 

[EddinKY]

First I think you need to get the slope fixed with drain swales so the water runs off quickly. The addition of wood chips will make it a continuous wet area. If you have ever driven a tractor thru a wood chip pile, you are lucky if you don't sink, wheels just spin in the black oooze under the wood chips. If you plant grass go for old KY31 fescue which makes a heavy matted sod. Finally, I have spread a very thin layer of gravel on a few grassy lanes that I use on occasion. As the grass grows the gravel disappears, but it adds stability to the ground and you can drive on it. Note: everyone loves 4x4 trucks, but also they know if they drive on wet ground, they can keep moving, but leave ruts behind that are very hard to repair. It is best to just stay off of wet ground.

 

[Tony H]

Considering our ground..... If I had that kind of issue in that size area.... Like said.. I would put in a base of 3-4" maximum pit run.. Spread and pack as well as I could then overlay with about 3" of compaction gravel.. I would NOT put down 1" of gravel then try to use it.. I would take the time as money allows to cover with the full 3" and only use the sections that I could cover at that thickness..

My 5 cents of opinion..

Using geotextile that Lowe's sells so the stone won't sink into the mud. it will sink. We are very much in the clay. Folks just dump shale down for driveways. It lasts a while but does get lost in the ground. This get textile stuff really holds the shale from sinking. Shale is very accessible here. Also what the stone yards call Crusher Run. It's a small stone mix with small gravel. Lay it out, drive on it once and it really pack hard.
Grass won't work. During wet periods, you can get away with driving over it a few times but the root system will shift and you will break thru.

 

[EddinKY]

As someone else said: $400 invested in geo cloth will save you a $1000 in gravel.

 

[Smitty62]

Not sure if it's available in your area but I've found using 1 - 1/4" processed concrete is the best deal in my area. It's only $300 for a full tri-axle load. It's a little soft at first but once it gets a couple of heavy rains on it packs hard.

 

[JWR]

There have to be a few good ideas in the last 31 posts... I'll add my opinions to the pile.

By the way pictures always help in order for us peanut gallery occupants to pontificate.
1/4 acre means approx. 105 ft square or the equivalent. 105ft square is not that big so...

1) Grass won't work forget it. You said the space had a lot of concrete chunk fill, etc. Not good for grass growth.
2) You said you use the space for storage and wood cutting. Not good for grass growth either. Sod would be nice but you have at least 2 strikes against it. Also said it is sloped but no idea how much.
3) Your topping was 'nice clay' which people have already made enough fun of. Wood chips and anything organic and cheap would work. There are several 'good' helpers like the free mulch from the county dump suggested by someone, etc. Still not great.

If you really want to do it right for your stated usage, find a few loads of asphalt millings as another guy said. It will imbed nicely in your clay and defeat the stickiness. Put a couple inches on at least and roll over it with any handy vehicles and pack it down. Hunt around -- I have seen places where the local county road people were looking for a place to dump millings. Hopefully you can use your tractor to smooth it out.

 

[dec4trax]

Clay soil can be stabilized by the addition of small percentages, by weight, of lime, thereby enhancing many of the engineering properties of the soil and producing an improved construction material. You will need to mix the soil and lime with a Tiller and then recompact the grade. It will add strength to the soil and reduce rutting. Success is not guaranteed. There are plenty of engineering publications and case studies on-line that explain the process, mix, and hydration requirements for soil stabilization with lime.

I would use run-of-quarry aggregate or waste rockfill (what ever you can find cheap in your area) to make some travel routes and staging areas to keep you and your tractor out of the mud and put your firewood on more wood chips since turf grass will not do well in clay.

After fighting the mud in my work area for several years, I was able to find a contractor trying to get rid of waste rock and he gladly dumped it on my property for free. I had some lunkers I had to push to the sides, but most was suitable for my road base needs.

Good luck !

 

[Creamer]

Considering our ground..... If I had that kind of issue in that size area.... Like said.. I would put in a base of 3-4" maximum pit run.. Spread and pack as well as I could then overlay with about 3" of compaction gravel.. I would NOT put down 1" of gravel then try to use it.. I would take the time as money allows to cover with the full 3" and only use the sections that I could cover at that thickness..

My 5 cents of opinion..

When I looked at where you are from I have to question your advice - it is frozen nine months out of the year there and so mud is not an issue.

 

[Cougsfan]

I remember my dad telling me that they used to lay down corncobs to make roads when he was a kid back in Kansas, and he said it would work pretty good for several years.

 

[lennyzx11]

I remember my dad telling me that they used to lay down corncobs to make roads when he was a kid back in Kansas, and he said it would work pretty good for several years.

Reminds me of corduroy roads I’ve found in old logging areas.

Corduroy road - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org