How to power a winch ?

[bcarwell]

I have a big PTO winch and have some questions about how to power it electrically. About all I know is it is bidirectional, and was used on a truck to move car bodies around in a junkyard, and somebody guessed it was wormgear driven with a ratio of 60:1.

I am using it to move a 400 pound trailer/load up and down a 40 degree incline hill between a cliff and river bank- about an 80 to 100 foot trip and want a 3 to 5 minute trip time up or down.

A few questions:

1) For the above application would a 115 VAC electric motor work. If so what horse power ?

2) What type of motor would be required to work in both directions ?

3) Would a direct drive from the motor work or do I need a clutch ? Could I just use a short chain drive off the gear on the winch to another gear welded on the motor shaft 1:1 supported by a couple pillow blocks ?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[pat32rf]

I would just start out with an old 1/2hp capacitor start motor with a reversing switch, mock everything up and give things a try. That is probably a 8-10,000 lb winch and will have a very low(high?) ratio in the worm drive. Used 1/2hp motors should be common and cheap to use as a starting point. Any electrician should be able to wire it up so it reverses with a double pole, double throw switch (about $5).
If it turns out to be too slow, then start adding a chain drive speed increaser/reducer...

 

[Groo]

Being PTO powered, I'm surprised it doesn't have a forward reverse gear selector already built in mechanically.

If it has a mechanical reverse, I'd look at a horizontal shaft gas engine. Its going to be super hard to find a high torque electric motor with that kind of duty cycle.

 

[BHD]

I made some winches, for building a tower, out of 50 to 1 worm drive boxes,

I used a heavy duty 1/2 electric drill for the power, I made one of the winches years ago and used the drill / winch for pulling my wells, (300 foot and 2" steel pipe), used it for setting up a 12 foot wind mill on a 60 foot tower,

(my son used a hydraulic motor on one I made for him)


the thing I like about the drill is you can gage how much or if your caught on some thing as your holding the torque in your hand and can tell instantly when one has hung up on some thing, If one had a drill with a 12" handle from the chuck, (not counting friction) for ever pound of pull at the end of the Handel you lifting/pulling 50 pounds if 50 to 1,

with the drill I figure about 4000 pounds max, (the drills I have there two speed so rolling out the cable is faster,

it is all nice and slow,

If you use a 1800, rpm motor I would think you would need to gear it down to about 300 or less to feed it to the winch, most electric drills are in the 1/2 to 3/4 hp for amp draw,

these gear box I use are from center pivot irrigation, (they are usually driven by one hp motors to a center gear box, (I think is 35 to 1, and the end or wheel gear boxes, (which the winches I use are made from), are either 50 or 52 to one, some were 50 and some are 52, I think mine are 50 to one,

now they are driving two boxes off of one motor, and that is to walk a irrigation sprinkler,

 

[bcarwell]

Thanks everybody, good food for thought.
There actually was a gear selector box for forward/reverse but the winch was parted out and didn't come with it. I was thinking about some cheapo stick shift from a car or truck or hydraulic drive but wanted to keep it simple if I can do it with a reversible electric motor. Also I didn't want to power it with a gas engine as I've got enough of them hanging around as it is I have to maintain, and usage will be sporadic so I don't want a gas engine sitting there alot.
Hadn't though of a heavy duty drill and surprised it would be up to the task but sounds like it would be worth a try at the very least as a prototype test, to see what the gear ratio is, speed control, reversible, etc. At least it would get things moving and I could see from some tests if I'd need a bigger motor.
Any more ideas are welcome !
BTW if I do power it with a chain drive using the gear that's already on the winch and find that I have enough starting torque from the motor, I just weld the other gear on the motor shaft and support it on both sides of the gear by two pillow blocks, right ? Anything else ?

 

[BHD]

it appears that there is a gear box on each side of the winch, is that the case?

is there two drives?

does it free wheel?

 

[bcarwell]

Yes it appears that there is a gear box on both sides. BUT: somebody told me it was two winches that were welded together in the middle of the takeup spool and they predicted that maybe one of the gear boxes would not be functional or have gears in it. I haven't had a chance to take it apart yet. But he may be right since the only drive gear is for one of the gearboxes on one side. There is no external gear on the other side and it appears to be sealed up. But the worm gears may nevertheless still be intact inside.

Bob

 

[BHD]

Three phase motors are simple to reverse, switch any two leads, of the three, most hoists use a double set of starters type relays, to operator the forward and reverse from a low voltage push button control,

Single phase are a re wiring of the insides, but it may be just as simple to use two motors each running opposite of each other and only power one of them at a time for up/in or down/out.

I have seen a drum switch reverse a single phase motor, even tho normally they are used on three phase, below are some schematics on how to wire with a starter relay and a drum switch, but for most two motors would be simpler and more fool proof,


http://chainganger.co.uk/Page1/PDF/Reverser.pdf

Wiring new motor


and from this discussion in Mike Holt's forum even electricians do not always know how to do motors,