How to seal a 4' x 4' wood box that holds water?

[plowhog]

I have a irrigation water distribution box that needs replacing. But I'm not sure how to build a new one that seals tight?

The box is 4' square, 2' high walls. Existing walls/bottom use redwood 2x8's. The box sits sub-grade with only the top lid above grade. The old box is 50 years old, and was still working (with leaky patches) until a thirsty bear tore off the top and did it in.

I have located some 2x12" heart redwood ($$$$) which will allow fewer seams than 2x8's. A friend suggested using a Dado blade to create joints that can be glued and screwed. I'm guessing he means creating something like tongue and groove, or a lap joint. Not sure, as I've never used a Dado blade?

Do you have any suggestions, using Dado or otherwise, how to join the 2x12's so they are water tight? Sides, corners, and floor?

There are also wall penetrations for irrigation pipes. 2 1/2, 3, and 6 in. Any ideas on a simple method to penetrate wood walls with pvc pipe and have a good seal? (A 6" schedule 80 bulkhead adapter is $400+).

The box location is remote, with no power, and 250' up a very steep hill. I will probably have to haul up pieces and assemble the box in place. Concrete would be ideal-- except for access. I *might* be able to haul enough bags of concrete to pour one of the four walls, and have the pipes go through that wall? But then I would need a method to join the concrete to the wood side walls?

Any ideas?

 

[ultrarunner]

Can you use a pond liner?

I've seen it done with penetration for round pipe cut small and stretched around pipe and secured with proper size hose clamp.

You also may be able to find ABS rectangular tub and use ABS cement and stainless screws for flanged penetrations?

 

[flyerdan]

You could use fiberglass cloth and resin to waterproof it after it is built and in place. That would also encapsulate all the fitting mounts on the inside, so you won't have to use such expensive stuff, and the tolerances can be a bit looser.

 

[Mendonsy]

Could use a cut down IBC tank and wrap it with treated wood 2x12's. It would be a LOT less expensive.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

could you go 21st century with a plastic IBC tote. About $100 bucks used around here.

edit: oops... too late already beat to the punch. (haha)

 

[xrjohndeere]

I have a irrigation water distribution box that needs replacing. But I'm not sure how to build a new one that seals tight?

The box is 4' square, 2' high walls. Existing walls/bottom use redwood 2x8's. The box sits sub-grade with only the top lid above grade. The old box is 50 years old, and was still working (with leaky patches) until a thirsty bear tore off the top and did it in.

I have located some 2x12" heart redwood ($$$$) which will allow fewer seams than 2x8's. A friend suggested using a Dado blade to create joints that can be glued and screwed. I'm guessing he means creating something like tongue and groove, or a lap joint. Not sure, as I've never used a Dado blade?

Do you have any suggestions, using Dado or otherwise, how to join the 2x12's so they are water tight? Sides, corners, and floor?

There are also wall penetrations for irrigation pipes. 2 1/2, 3, and 6 in. Any ideas on a simple method to penetrate wood walls with pvc pipe and have a good seal? (A 6" schedule 80 bulkhead adapter is $400+).

The box location is remote, with no power, and 250' up a very steep hill. I will probably have to haul up pieces and assemble the box in place. Concrete would be ideal-- except for access. I *might* be able to haul enough bags of concrete to pour one of the four walls, and have the pipes go through that wall? But then I would need a method to join the concrete to the wood side walls?

Any ideas?

Use oatley pvc shower pan liner. Run one long piece down one side across bottom and up the other side. Over lap remaining two sides and weld the seams together with the glue. You can make corner pieces and glue together. Cut holes for your pipe and glue flanges where it goes through with pvc glue.

 

[civilian]

What about metal nipples penetrating the wood and use an underwater marine caulk for the fittings? Drill the appropriate hole size to "thread" the nile in? Would ice and water guard used on roofing to prevent ice dams work to line the inside of the box? Jon


I like the shower pan liner better.

 

[Diggin It]

The box is 4' square, 2' high walls.

Any ideas?

That's around 250 gallons. Get one of the totes as suggested. Or two. Or more. They're fairly light while empty, should be no problem getting it up the hill, even if you need to rig it up on a small trailer or skid.

They have an outlet and valve you can rig into your irrigation system.

 

[Dwellonroof]

Will Red Guard work?

 

[EddieWalker]

Will Red Guard work?

My first thought was Redgard too. Seal all your fittings with good 50 year siliconized caulking and then paint two layers of Redgard over it.

Redgard is commonly used to waterproof showers. It is also rated to waterproof a pool or fountain. It's very thick, almost like jello. I use old chip brushes to apply it and then through them away when I'm done.

Custom Building Products RedGard 1 Gal. Waterproofing and Crack Prevention Membrane LQWAF1 - The Home Depot

Prevent crack in tile and stone floor by using this Custom Building Products RedGard Waterproofing and Crack Prevention Membrane. Convenient to handle.

www.homedepot.com

 

[pmsmechanic]

Find an old bathtub and use plastic bulkhead fittings similar to what's on an IBC tote.

 

[xrjohndeere]

Redgard is good stuff. The question I have is if the box is designed to keep water out will the hydrostatic pressure cause liners and such to fail? There needs to be a perimeter around the box with rock, fabric, and a drain tile to allow surrounding water to flow away like a drain tile around a foundation.

 

[plowhog]

Thank you all for ideas and replies. A few comments:

Totes- too light duty. Bears attack this box. Redwood 2x8's kept them out until they rotted. Then last year the bears got through. Something lesser won't. This box *must* be sub-grade in dirt, as the elevation of gravity flow in/out pipe locations cannot be changed. I only trust redwood in soil. If I must "armor" a tote using redwood to bear-proof it-- that doesn't seem to save anything.

Redgard- not familiar with it. All I see are references to waterproofing tile or stone. Will it work on wood, and adhere to the exterior of wood without another material on top?

Oatey shower pan liner- last year I tried some patching the floor and walls using Grace ice & water shield. Similar to shower pan liner. I had a difficult time fitting it in corners, also the transition from floor to sides, etc. It's meant for flat surfaces-- not the inside of a box? There is continuous water turbulence in this box. After a while, the Grace shield came loose and was floating around. I had screwed reinforcing strips in the corners and where the floor met the walls, but it still pulled loose. I had to pull it out.

Pond liner / Fiberglass liner applied after assembly-- sounds interesting. The pond liner seems like it could seal the joints where the pipes stick through. But a complete (interior) fiberglass liner with resin for the floor, walls, ceiling, and joints also sounds interesting. Can anyone suggest a source for me to investigate that further? The Youtube videos I looked at all referenced applying fiberglass to plywood. Will fiberglass adhere to the rougher surface redwood?

 

[plowhog]

The question I have is if the box is designed to keep water out will the hydrostatic pressure cause liners and such to fail? There needs to be a perimeter around the box with rock, fabric, and a drain tile to allow surrounding water to flow away like a drain tile around a foundation.

The box is sub-grade. Only the top of the box is at grade level. It has soil below it and on the sides now. I intend to replace that with some amount of gravel below it and on the sides for better drainage. So any hydrostatic pressure pushing out would be neutralized since it is sub-grade and backfilled.

 

[EddieWalker]

Decades ago, show pans where made from fiberglass for a little while. They all failed because in just a few years, the natural movement in a house flexed the fiberglass to the breaking point. It takes a lot of fiberglass to creates something strong like a boat or a corvette. It does not like to flex.

Redgard is a polymer coating. It goes on like paint, but it's not paint. It remains flexible and water proof. Kind of like a rubber coating. There are at least a dozen other products out there similar to Redgard that do the same thing. It is being used on the exterior of the sheathing on homes instead of house wrap. ZIP Siding is probably the most well known product that uses polymer sealers on it to keep out the elements. All the tests that I have read are showing it to be the best way to seal up a house that there is. Cost is still a factor on new construction, but in time, it will become more and more common just like ZIP Siding is showing up all over the place. Lowes even carries it now.

Lowes has a version of Redgard in their tile section. It's blue and it works the same way.

 

[Leejohn]

See there is a jacuzzi mfg. near you and ask if you can get one before they driil the holes. Or one right out of the mold, might even be able to get a 2nd.

 

[jyoutz]

Why not pour a concrete box, then paint it with red guard.

 

[civilian]

What about using a metal horse water tank? Corrosion? Jon

 

[ponytug]

Can you find someone locally with pack animals that could move the concrete up there for you? In my experience, concrete will do much better than redwood submerged in my experience. That frees you up to make an oak, or steel lid, or a redwood lid with a steel cover. The neighboring ranch has concrete spring boxes that are pre-WW II that are still running, though a few have lost their wood covers due to rot.

A dado is a stack of cutting blades and chippers that cut a groove of defined width. So you can make one that generates a 1.5" cut (aka 2") that you could slot a, say, 2x12 into. When you build a redwood (cypress, cedar) water tank, the floor is usually made of tongue and groove that slots around the perimeter into a dado cut into the vertical timbers that are banded (compressed) together.

If it is two by redwood vs bear, I would bet on the bear any day. Redwood is quite brittle compared to other evergreens.

I would caution you that there is a huge difference between the longevity of today's redwood, and the redwood of 100 years ago. Today's redwood will rot out in as soon as ten years. I am told it has to do with the relatively younger age of redwoods being logged today.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Egon]

Wooden tanks:

Use liners for square ones. The round ones should be easy to find.