Tractor Sizing How would you attack this problem? (tractor sizing, etc)

[beep chirp whirr]

Hello! I've been lurking on TBN and other sites on and off for the psat few months, as I've been trying to decide how to approach the equipment I need to maintain my land. I can run myself (and have - a major "feature" of my decision process involves 'analysis paralysis') in circles over and over, or I can try and break out and solicit outside feedback. Well, here I am. I'm asking all you fine folks for your thoughts and opinions, to see how you would approach my situation.

I'm looking after two different lots; I've got a 2 acre lot myself (0.3 acres of grass at up to 15% grade; 1.5 acres of forest at up to a 22% grade, although the steepest trail is only 19% in parts) and I have a 3 acre lot that I help maintain as well (0.55 acres of grass; ~0.25 acres of light trees and grass; ~2 acres of forest; only significant grade is the gravel driveway at about a 9% grade).

What am I trying to accomplish?

At a minimum:
- lawn care for at least the first lot (mowing, annual aeration, etc)
- snow removal at least the first lot, but ideally both (just the fel+bucket, or snowthrower?)
- rehab then maintain existing paths through both forests (rotary cutter?)

It would be great if:
- help with forest maintenance/logging - trees die, the ability to lift/move trunks, haul wood, chip small branches, etc - thinking a lot about a grapple and a 3 point hitch chipper, for example
- move mulch/dirt/rock/firewood/x/y/z from drop point (typically driveway) to where needed (hello, fel)
- handle regrading of the gravel driveway in the second lot
- handle graveling additional section(s) as needed
- blaze new paths through forest
- pick up the occasional light pallet and move it
- lift/move/redistribute earth to terrace a new section on the hill in the first lot

How do I do it today?
- push mower
- aging, failing riding lawn mower
- no snow removal equipment yet (just moved back to the state of my birth; didn't need it for the past decade)
- no chipping today, burning brush, but would prefer to get more than that out of it (mulched tree stuff for forest paths, etc)
- hauling everything around by hand in a wheelbarrow
- shovels, rakes, etc - a bunch of human power

Sure, I can repair or replace the rider, source a snowthrower, and continue as is... but I'm wondering if there isn't a case for 'work smarter, not harder' here with a tractor and the appropriate implements.

So I've been debating tractors - subcompacts in particular, although I'll confess to having peeked at the compacts as well. I've been trying to figure out how to right size (or if it's even appropriate or is overkill) for what I'd like to accomplish. I'm also somewhat concerned about the grades present (in the first property, mainly - attaching a topo map of both), about the ability of a mmm vs some sort of 3point finish mower to handle same; the need for a snowthrower as opposed to just using the bucket (or a snow bucket, or a blade) on the fel.

I've been leaning more towards the Kubota stuff (the BX2380, or the B2301 maybe?) but I've looked at the LS MT125 and just started taking a peek at the NH WM25S... at least until I start thinking in the other direction and just repair/replacing the rider and sourcing a snowthrower.

So, now, I ask for your thoughts. How would you approach the work here?

 

[Turbys_1700]

What is your budget? For you size a B series is right in the wheel house. If you every might get a larger track you may want to look at the L series. The belly mower is great on the B but you may want a RFM with the 2501 L series. If you don't have a lot of obstacles that is a good option. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[jeff9366]

For five acres either a subcompact or compact tractor could serve. 4-WD should provide traction on your sloped land with R4/industrial tires.

Subcompact tractors with a Mid Mount Mower have about 3" or ground clearance with mower attached, 9" ground clearance with mower removed. Removing and replacing MMM is easier than in the past but still not fun. Minimal 9" ground clearance can make working in woodland difficult. Subcompacts have two-range (2) HST transmissions. Subcompacts generally draw 48" wide implements.

Compact tractors of 1,600 - 1,800 pounds bare tractor weight have larger wheels and tires. Larger wheels yield greater ground clearance, usually at least 12", and a much smoother ride over rough ground. Compact tractors have greater FEL lift capacity than Subcompacts and usually have three-range (3) HST transmissions. If there is some distance between the two lots, you will appreciate the greater road speed of of a 'B' with the three range HST. Compact tractors generally draw 54" or 60" implements. Allowing for a 5" overlap in use, a considerable improvement over 48" implements.

Either a subcompact or compact tractor will operate a proprietary MMM equally well. The compact will be a TINY amount less maneuverable.
A (universal fit) Three Point Hitch mounted Finish Mower is much less costly than a proprietary MMM but also less maneuverable.
VIDEO: Comparing Finish Mowers (midmount VS 3-point) - Kubota B261 - YouTube

If you can afford a 1,600 - 1,800 pound Compact, go for it.

Five reasons owner/operators trade up from Subcompact Tractors:
More tractor weight.
More FEL lift capacity.
More ground clearance.
Three-range (3) HST (Lower LOW, Higher, HIGH) ~~ rather than two-range (2) HST.
Larger wheels and tires yield more tractive power pulling ground contact implements and logs, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow.
Larger wheels and tires permit compact tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris with less operator perturbation.

 

[arrow]

Lets go by weight of the tractor. For moving snow with a bucket or plow or rear scraper I wouldn't want anything less than 2400 lbs for just the tractor. I'm thinking you get some snow up there in MN. Even with a snow blower, you can get a wider pathway with a larger blower a larger tractor can handle. For moving logs, the same weight. Lawn work, I'd get 6 ply turfs along with a set of chains or a $4000 zero turn.
As Jeff states, you get more capacity all around with a heavier machine.
Everything you describe is tough work. A mistake is to minimilize just how tough it is. I live on 5 acres as well with about your same topography, My 2500 lb tractor (closer to 4000 with fel, filled tires) has done work with so much more authority over my previous 1900 lb machine (closer to 3000 lb with same), I could kick myself for having to put up with the differences for so long.
I do not bring this over the manicured lawn as it has ag tires. 8,000 sq feet of lawn takes me less than an hour pushing a 28" mower along.
The most all around tire on a tractor for a person wanting to do everything I feel is a set of turfs with a set of chains. Turfs are quite good in snow and easy on the lawn. With chains, you pick up their compromises in the woods and anywhere more traction is needed. 2 link ladder chains would be all you need and they'd also help in protecting the tires from abrasions for the tougher stuff.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Op,

I think for most of what you're looking for, a decent riding mower to mow around the house(s), and a subcompact tractor would get you what you're looking for, as long as your attachments are sized to your subcompact.

Snow removal. Yes, a FEL and bucket will work. It is also the slowest way to do it, but it works. An angled blade would be better, either off the 3pt hitch, or off the FEL. However, a snow blower would be better for keeping snow piles from stacking up around your parking/driveway areas. Being in MN, you'll get plenty of snow (as do we). Currently, I'm still using FEL and bucket (slow, but works), but if I don't start off the snow season by piling my snow far enough away, then late in winter, I start to run out of room to put it. Once the piles are "set" and hardened, it's much more difficult to push them back late in the year. With a snow blower, you can throw the snow farther away, and spread it more, reducing the need for snow piles. Plus, late in the year, you can throw the snow over the top of any existing piles. I would also recommend filling your rear tires with Rimguard. The rear ballast will help with traction while pushing/working snow piles.

Lawn care. You're going to need a lawn mower. I wouldn't use a subcompact, or compact for a primary lawn mower around houses and buildings. Just too hard to maneuver in tight places. A decent riding mower will be very useful, and can keep your "big" tractor from rutting up your lawn/grass areas when the ground is soft. With a riding mower, I'd go with a rear 3pt rotary mower for the "rough stuff". If you go with a subcompact and belly mower, you're going to have much more area to trim/weedeat by hand because you can't get the "big" tractor in there.

FEL/grapple work. Ok, now it really depends on "how big" the things are you want to grab, or scoop and haul. No way around it, if you want to lift heavy stuff, it's going to take a bigger tractor (compact) to have enough mass and lift capacity. How big of trees/logs are we talking about? Are you willing/able to cut those trees/logs up into smaller bites, so a subcompact can pick them up? You need not only enough lift capacity, but you need chassis weight of tractor. And you will need a suitable rear ballast weight before you lift anything meaningful. Be it either a dedicated ballast box, or a heavy enough attachment hanging off the 3pt hitch to give you the needed counter balance weight. Depending on what you're lifting, you may have to go into compact size chassis to do it. The rear tires filled with Rimguard will help here too. If you get big and heavy on your tractor, you'll want to limit how and when you drive it across your lawn, as the heavier chassis will leave marks or ruts in your nice grass areas.

Wood chipping. Uh oh. Now we're talking just straight horsepower. Depending on what kind of wood you're chipping (hard or soft wood), you may need 35-40 hp minimum at the pto to run that chipper. At least in the 8" Woods/Woodmaxx that I've looked at. And even then, you'll have to turn your input feed speed down on the chipper to keep from stalling the tractor. Now a small chipper/shredder can get by with less hp, but it limits the size of what you can chip. I guess it depends on how often, and how big you're going to be chipping. Maybe just rent a free standing (self powered) one for the occasional use.

Moving pallets. You did say "light", so about the only thing I'd say here is make sure whatever tractor you get, it has the SSQA option on the FEL. Some don't come with it as standard. That way you can find more common FEL attachments, like forklift forks.

 

[Diggin It]

but I've looked at the LS MT125 and just started taking a peek at the NH WM25S...

Those are the same machine, exactly. LS makes that for NH. Only difference is darker paint and higher price for the NH. Choice there REALLY comes down to whether you think you'll need to be seeing the dealer often or not. Parts are mostly interchangeable so you can get them at the NH dealer whichever brand machine you end up with. NH dealer probably won't want to service the LS under warranty though.

Can't speak to snow removal, but it should handle most everything else. I don't have a grapple, but be aware it will require some additional hydraulic connections.

 

[tradosaurus]

I echo the advice on a zero turn around your property. I mow about 2 1/2 acres with a 60" zero turn. I bought a commercial grade ZT because of the terrain and abuse it has seen. However once I get into my 60's in a few years I might get a cab tractor with finish mower as the heat, dust and time it takes to mow is already getting on my nerves. 2 1/2 acres takes me about 4 hrs on the ZT.

I would figure out the amount of HP you need at the PTO to operate the biggest implement and that will decide the size of tractor for you.

 

[Egon]

In the past all the work that has been listed, other than chipper & snowblower, I have done using a Kubota B7100 HST with turfs. Chains, all four wheels, really make a traction difference. The smaller size makes for excellent manoeuvreability in tight places.

The biggest drawback was lift height limitations with the loader.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ Looks to be around a 30 year old model, but I see a few in the $5,000 range with a few newer ones closer to $10,000.

 

[atsah]

You don't need much of a mower to mow that much area. I would consider a compact tractor instead of the SC, the faster you can remove snow the better. A front mounted blower, a loader and a 5ft bush hog. I would stay around 25hp to avoid regens and all the EPA non sense..