hp needed for genny?

[RFB]

Ron,

Thanks for the input; it will help me to make an educated purchase. I will not be using electric heat (it is forced-air electric) during an outage. I planned the wood stove when I built, and I keep 5 cords as backup. The central A/C is a 4 ton unit, and if the outage is during our 100F+ summer, it will be used. There is one 3 foot 240VAC baseboard heater for the pump house, plus I have a 1hp deep-well submersible pump. All the rest are general household draws, and I planned on load balancing as a basic plan.

One reason I had planned on a 30kw versus a 20kw was for(as you mentioned) the inertial advantage (and because Tiger does not make a 25). I knew about the 2hp per kw guideline, and was also trying to maximize capability in the event I bump up in tractor size.

I already keep keep fuel on-site, we are pretty rural (county seat is the largest with 800; not even one traffic light in a 1400 square mile county).

Do you think the carry-all idea is practical?

 

[JB4310]

RFB, I'm just learning about this interesting subject and am by no means any kind of authority, but I knew what kind of an answer you were going to get regarding the 30 kw generator, way over size and by your load list I don't think your gonna use half of that 20 kws output. If I had your tractors pto hp, I would go with the 20 kw max, you'll still have hp in reserve and plenty of kw's in reserve.
Mine is only 10 kw, but I don't think I would need more than that, I have oil fired heat and hot water and no well pump just a couple of 1500 watt supplemental heaters, the house is 3000 sq ft and 3 kids so there are a lot of TVs and lights but most of those are now the mini fluorescents, in the summer 20,000 btu's of window AC's.
I don't think we would need to bake a pie during an outage but we could, drying laundry is a necessity, those would be the biggest draws and I might have to cut back electrical use in other parts of the house when using either the stove or dryer but I can live with that.
I got the carry all for mine and thought I would put casters on mine like you mentioned but mine is fairly light enough to just slide around, I'm going to store mine in a climate controlled shop as opposed to just out in a barn, I'll probably tape the vents up to prevent critters from moving in.
Here's a pic of my carry all, I raised it to 12" with higher legs (was only 7") and modded it to hook up to my imatch on another tractor.

 

[RFB]

Nice carry-all. Self-made or purchased?

Also, does your generator provide AVR or capacitive regulation?

 

[RonMar]

I like that sled.

RFB, that 4 ton A/C is going to need 5 or so KW to run, and near double that for a high pressure startup. Depending on it's age, it should have a pressure delay/soft start circuit to take the edge off of the startup draw, and that is only for a few seconds. That is the 10KW I allowed for earlier. I would be surprised if you couldn't maintain a comfortable, almost normal lifestyle on the remaining 10KW. I wonder how much your central heat pulls at full heat mode?

I think 20KW matched with your 40HP tractor would quite happily power your listed situation in almost normal fashion. I also thingk it would do well on a larger tractor as the HP margine will make it a little happier when you are powering that A/C and the poor tractor is laboring outside in the heat... A larger gen head will only increase the HP drain and add load to the engine in the summer time. When it comes to generators, bigger is not better...

And for anyone who is interested, here is a pic of my 3KW monster.

 

[JB4310]

RFB, I got the carrier from the company I bought the genny from as part of a package, mine is not AVR, I got a couple extra capacitors with the order in case I need them in a hurry.
I'll try to link you to the manufacturer and also the dealer I bought mine thru, the site may say out of stock but she is just having problems updating the page, pto marketplace has component prices listed or you can go to the packages heading.
I noticed tiger power does not offer a carrier, but also noticed that the tiger power 10 kw and the IMD 10kw look identical except for the box's color, the 10 kws have an Italian made Sincro alternator and gear box, the larger units look different.
I think ron was alluding to the idea that you could probably run your electric central heating system with the 20kw, if you wanted to.

RonMar, I like that fly wheeler, are they really as nice sounding as they say? whats the max rpm's 600-800? or is it even less than that? I did a lot of reading on those so called third world engines, stories like villagers working on 30 year old motors with tools made out of animal bones.

PTO Market Place, Your Market Place For PTO Generators

International Manufacturing & Design Home

 

[RFB]

Ron,

Love that single cylinder; it reminds me of something like you would see on the "African Queen" (Bogart). The little oiler in the foreground is the perfect accoutrement.

 

[RFB]

JB4310,

Thanks for the data point(s). My first choice if I can get it is a gen with AVR.

One of the reasons I am keeping the 30kw model in consideration is because while I am pursuing this project I am also considering going up in tractor size. I am a solid Kubota guy, but I am also a very solid HST guy, and I want something in the 80-100 hp range. The Deere 6420 with IVT(CVT) is one up for consideration. It's not HST, but it's not jamming gears either.

 

[frankc]

RFB,
In regard to Tiger Power Gen quality, I have to say that I don't have anything bad to say about them. I did have a problem with my first one where the front armature bearing was real noisy(bad). Lucky for me, I only live 40 miles from the National Distributor of these generators, I hauled it to them, we determined that there was actually something wrong with the CASE, so, they pulled a brand new unit off the shelf and replaced the whole thing. Really nice people actually!
My setup came with a wheeled cart, built like a bricks**t house. Not as compact of a package as JB's SKID, but can't complain about the quality of what they delivered. One thing to keep in mind when deciding which size of GEN to purchase is whether you are getting a 2-pole 3600rpm gen or a 4-pole 1800rpm gen head. I absolutely wanted a 4-pole head, the smallest 4-pole head that Tiger offers is a 20kw, they happened to be out of stock of the 20kw's when I purchased so they made me a REAL GOOD deal on the 30Kw.
Most PTO gen manf. don't offer 4-pole heads on anything smaller than 20Kw. Just by looking at JB's it appears to be a 2-pole head.
JB, I do like your sled setup. I guess we could have a conversation about the +/- of 3ph carriers and wheeled carts. Here's some of what I've determined.

a) Wheeled carts let you move the whole gen by hand to some degree. Like If its blocking something behind it in the garage and you need to get it out of the way. You'd have to be a bigger man than I to move my 400lb 30kw if it was on a skid.
b) Wheeled carts will be harder to keep the PTO shaft straight(in line) with the tractor! This is a factor not only on the Horizontal plane but also the Vertical Plane. Vibration, and Speed up/Slow down when the u-joints are NOT square can affect loss of HP and accelerated wear on the Gen Head.
c) Wheeled carts vertical height is NOT adjustable! The height of the shaft is what it is, if you have different sized tractors and are trying to keep the shaft straight it can become challenging. On the flip side the 3PH carrier can be lifted or lowered with the tractor and you can dial that baby right in. A simple screw jack then put under the skid will stabilize it to the ground and eliminate the possiblity that the 3ph may drift during operation.

RFB, I agree with Ron about 20Kw being enough power to do what you need.
You'd be surprised how little power you REALLY need to just make do. I'm kind of use to not having power as I have a mountain cabin without any commercial power source available for over 7 miles. I spent the first 15 yrs just with Propane fired appliances (lights, stove, refrig) and still prefer the quiet of that solution. But, as the wife and kids get older and I need to provide MORE creature comforts, showering under a heated water bucket isn't cutting it anymore. Granted, we only spend couple weeks a year in that environment, but my family is used to it more than most in todays world.

I have a CATEGORY NAME RECOMMENDATION:

POWER GENERATION

It could be sub-categoried to support solar or generator solutions.

Is there a moderator that could help us make this happen????????

thanks guys

Frank

 

[frankc]

Ron,
Thanks for your thoughts about the V1105/8kw St setup. If you think it will work good, I feel more confident that I'm not wasting my time. Your real world experience is VALUED and appreciated. If they do start a GENERATOR CATEGORY, and I do decide to do this project maybe I'll chronicle it.
The engine is still in a 4wd reel mower that starts right up and drives great. The reels were (sold all that stuff) powered by a separate hydraulic pump than the wheel drive(hydrostatic pump). So, I thought I'd pull the separate Hydraulic pump off and design a way to use that PTO to drive the generator direct, while keeping the ability to still drive this thing. Talk about rolling power source, ha ha.
In regards to my neighbors, I'm a redneck in the midst of yuppie land, I think they all wake up in the mornings and over coffee have the what's he up to today laugh. BUT, when the sh*t hit the fan after that summer storm, my house ended up being the community congregation site. If I wasn't fixing other peoples generators(mostly gummed up carbs) I was fixing chainsaws since we had alot of tree damage. So, everyone more or less tolerates me because they figure I'm their last line of defense when everything is going bad.
Frank

 

[charlz]

I already keep keep fuel on-site, we are pretty rural (county seat is the largest with 800; not even one traffic light in a 1400 square mile county).

Are you up towards the Council area? or more north?