HST v Hydraulic Shuttle Transmission

[Heywood Jannockitov]

With a HST you have infinite speed.

I bet that comes in handy for inter-galactic travel

 

[sgrol]

I bet that comes in handy for inter-galactic travel

You didn't read what I meant. Or did you think you knew what I meant but didn't mean to say what you thought I wrote.

 

[Andrewnewy]

My Preference would be go a gear tractor in anything up to about 100+hp, The thing that is nice about a gear tractor is you can pick which gear/range is best for the task at hand, this then allows you to get all your HP to the wheels when you need it.
With an HST, you will always be relying on Hydraulic Pressure at some point to transfer the power to the wheels, this simply means a loss of HP.

All said, each has there place, you your mainly using your tractor for Mowing, Moving trailers around and the odd bit of Loader work then HST is defiantly the easier way to go, However if you are buying a 50hp(for example) tractor and need that 50Hp then a geared tractor is the way to go.
Bigest difference between Hydraulic shuttle & Syncro Shuttle, is the latter you need to clutch in-between changes, where as the Hyd Shuttle, has a wet clutch, so lets you shift on the go, The wet clutch will typically have less burnouts if used correctly, than the dry clutch, but once again, this comes down to selecting the right gear for the task at hand and not riding the clutch!
You will also see a reduction in fuel usage with a Gear tractor, as the engine revs become more variable.

All of this said however, as the Big (130hp+) TTV transmissions are being made smaller we are starting to see this style move into smaller units, so probably in the next 10 years gear tractors will disappear completely. Along with smaller engines producing the same horsepower!

 

[dennis52]

My Preference would be go a gear tractor in anything up to about 100+hp, The thing that is nice about a gear tractor is you can pick which gear/range is best for the task at hand, this then allows you to get all your HP to the wheels when you need it.
With an HST, you will always be relying on Hydraulic Pressure at some point to transfer the power to the wheels, this simply means a loss of HP.

All said, each has there place, you your mainly using your tractor for Mowing, Moving trailers around and the odd bit of Loader work then HST is defiantly the easier way to go, However if you are buying a 50hp(for example) tractor and need that 50Hp then a geared tractor is the way to go.
Bigest difference between Hydraulic shuttle & Syncro Shuttle, is the latter you need to clutch in-between changes, where as the Hyd Shuttle, has a wet clutch, so lets you shift on the go, The wet clutch will typically have less burnouts if used correctly, than the dry clutch, but once again, this comes down to selecting the right gear for the task at hand and not riding the clutch!
You will also see a reduction in fuel usage with a Gear tractor, as the engine revs become more variable.

All of this said however, as the Big (130hp+) TTV transmissions are being made smaller we are starting to see this style move into smaller units, so probably in the next 10 years gear tractors will disappear completely. Along with smaller engines producing the same horsepower!

Hi Andrew.

I have driven a basic Kubota gear tractor for 13 years. You had to stop to change to any gear.

Recently bought that new Kioti with HS

Can you explain precisely what the DS4510HS Hydraulic Shuttle can and can't do.
I am told it is not a true power shuttle. What does that mean?

My understanding is that I can change from forward to reverse to forward at low speed and with minimal load. eg on level ground and/or doing loader work

Am I right that you can't change up or down gears 1 to 4 (using the shuttle clutch alone) while the tractor is on the go. ie these gears are not syncromeshed.
What are burnouts ( is it when you are crashing the gears) ?

Finally, when changing from forward to reverse to forward on a steep slope I have been using the old foot clutch and brake technique as the shuttle initially and momentarily, goes into neutral before going into gear, which is a bit unnerving.

But my major concern was that it seemed, on steep slopes, to be putting a lot of load on the hydraulic shuttle and I am not sure if the shuttle can handle it.

I am slashing on these slopes so am going at 2600 revs for the 540 rpm on the slasher ( usually in low 1st or 2nd) when I do the forward reverse change.

How durable are these type of hydraulic clutches compared to the dry clutch.

Having read your other posts, you seem to have a fair bit of knowledge about your tractors.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

I never shift the shuttle when the engine is above idle. I whould think that would be pretty hard on things shifting at 2600 rpm. I use my foot throttle most of the time so its easy to un-rev.

 

[Andrewnewy]

DS4510HS, Well, as I mentioned in another post, it was a bit of a surprise tractor! and because of that I haven't actually been able to drive one yet, but the concept behind it is, there are 2 clutch plates, one for forward, one for Reverse, The operation of the clutch is via hydraulic pressure from the control leaver, (I need to double check this), but these clutch's are immersed in oil to keep them cool.

I haven't looked at the make up of this particular transmission in detail, but essentially you have 3 clutch's, One is the main, the other the fwd/rev Pack, depending on where the fwd/rev clutch pack is would depend on whether you can change gears using it's Neutral, however I would suspect not.

So in short, yes as you change through neutral it will free wheel, if your worried about rolling you can depress just the brake.

As for changing at speed and High RPM, like any clutch the more load it is under the faster it will wear, however that is why it is oil immersed, heat is the fastest way to kill a dry clutch, so by immersing it in oil, it keeps it cool. hence allowing you to change while on the move.

As for my comment about 'Burnout' probably the wrong choice of word, was basically talking about a clutch getting worn out, on a gear tractor people have a tendency to ride the clutch, particularly when doing loader work, unlike a car the tractor engine is often at high rpm, and funnily enough under a bit of load. so end story is worn out clutch, fortunately clutch's are fairly easy to replace if your setup for it, and usually a lot cheaper then an HST unit (unless you have a JD, in which case everything is expensive!), The key to looking after a gear tractor, pick the right gear for the task, and completely take your foot off the clutch unless it's depressed!

Part two of good care, is buy a Hydraulic Shuttle tractor in the first place, this goes a long way to protecting you main clutch, so you've tick the box on this one.

I think (will need to check) that the only reason this is probably not a true Power shuttle, is it's a mechanical Leaver controlling the Hydraulic Clutch Pack, on most true Powershuttle tractors, the Leaver on the dash is controlling a computer which controls the clutch pack, adding this computer allows for a bit of 'Idiot' proofing, the computer will also make the change smoother, by determining the tractors speed and adjusting the speed of the change accordingly. The other big difference, most bigger tractors with Powershuttle will have a 4 or 8 plate clutch pack, allowing them to change at higher speeds.

As for changing direction , certainly changing at Full RPM will put the clutch under more load, but it is designed for this, at the end of the day no worse than De-Clutching normally. so this should be fine, the best way to care for it though would be to put it in neutral while the tractor comes to a stop(use the brake in required), then throw it in reverse, but if you ever can, drop your RPM first. Where ever possible try and avoid Changed on the side of hills, but this goes for using your main clutch as well, that said there are always times when this is un-avoidable.

On this note, when ever your Engaging your PTO, particularly with a slasher, do it while the RPM is low, then increase to Operating RPM, this will save you PTO Clutch.

On the subject of slashing. Often you don't need to run a slasher at 540RPM, you will get just as good a cut at 500rpm, and save fuel in the process, the golden rule with PTO's is use the lowest amount of engine power required to do the job, with smaller tractors this becomes a balancing game between enough engine power to drive around, up hills exe... and being able to run the implement, but don't stress about trying to get it up to 540rpm. The 540RPM is a maximum rating that the shaft/implement can run at, running it lower just looks after your gear.

Think I got all your questions, but if I've missed anything, or isn't clear, ask away!

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

DS4510HS, Well, as I mentioned in another post, it was a bit of a surprise tractor! and because of that I haven't actually been able to drive one yet, but the concept behind it is, there are 2 clutch plates, one for forward, one for Reverse, The operation of the clutch is via hydraulic pressure from the control leaver, (I need to double check this), but these clutch's are immersed in oil to keep them cool.

I haven't looked at the make up of this particular transmission in detail, but essentially you have 3 clutch's, One is the main, the other the fwd/rev Pack, depending on where the fwd/rev clutch pack is would depend on whether you can change gears using it's Neutral, however I would suspect not.

So in short, yes as you change through neutral it will free wheel, if your worried about rolling you can depress just the brake.

As for changing at speed and High RPM, like any clutch the more load it is under the faster it will wear, however that is why it is oil immersed, heat is the fastest way to kill a dry clutch, so by immersing it in oil, it keeps it cool. hence allowing you to change while on the move.

As for my comment about 'Burnout' probably the wrong choice of word, was basically talking about a clutch getting worn out, on a gear tractor people have a tendency to ride the clutch, particularly when doing loader work, unlike a car the tractor engine is often at high rpm, and funnily enough under a bit of load. so end story is worn out clutch, fortunately clutch's are fairly easy to replace if your setup for it, and usually a lot cheaper then an HST unit (unless you have a JD, in which case everything is expensive!), The key to looking after a gear tractor, pick the right gear for the task, and completely take your foot off the clutch unless it's depressed!

Part two of good care, is buy a Hydraulic Shuttle tractor in the first place, this goes a long way to protecting you main clutch, so you've tick the box on this one.

I think (will need to check) that the only reason this is probably not a true Power shuttle, is it's a mechanical Leaver controlling the Hydraulic Clutch Pack, on most true Powershuttle tractors, the Leaver on the dash is controlling a computer which controls the clutch pack, adding this computer allows for a bit of 'Idiot' proofing, the computer will also make the change smoother, by determining the tractors speed and adjusting the speed of the change accordingly. The other big difference, most bigger tractors with Powershuttle will have a 4 or 8 plate clutch pack, allowing them to change at higher speeds.

As for changing direction , certainly changing at Full RPM will put the clutch under more load, but it is designed for this, at the end of the day no worse than De-Clutching normally. so this should be fine, the best way to care for it though would be to put it in neutral while the tractor comes to a stop(use the brake in required), then throw it in reverse, but if you ever can, drop your RPM first. Where ever possible try and avoid Changed on the side of hills, but this goes for using your main clutch as well, that said there are always times when this is un-avoidable.

On this note, when ever your Engaging your PTO, particularly with a slasher, do it while the RPM is low, then increase to Operating RPM, this will save you PTO Clutch.

On the subject of slashing. Often you don't need to run a slasher at 540RPM, you will get just as good a cut at 500rpm, and save fuel in the process, the golden rule with PTO's is use the lowest amount of engine power required to do the job, with smaller tractors this becomes a balancing game between enough engine power to drive around, up hills exe... and being able to run the implement, but don't stress about trying to get it up to 540rpm. The 540RPM is a maximum rating that the shaft/implement can run at, running it lower just looks after your gear.

Think I got all your questions, but if I've missed anything, or isn't clear, ask away!

This should help anyone decide between HST and geared if HST available.:laughing::laughing:

 

[soulasphil]

I only have a small CUT, a JD 3520 Power reverser, not a farm tractor. But I am a great fan of the shuttle. You choose a gear combination at leisure then put the reverser in forward or reverse. The hydraulic clutch is pretty fast and I don't think it will let your tractor move down a slope. You can use the reverser at any speed but be prepared for quite a jolt if you are speeding ! You cannot change gears without clutching either with your foot or by putting the reverser in neutral. I have never tried anything easier or more efficient for FEL work : your right hand controls the FEL and a flip of your left hand sends you forward or backwards.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I only have a small CUT, a JD 3520 Power reverser, not a farm tractor. But I am a great fan of the shuttle. You choose a gear combination at leisure then put the reverser in forward or reverse. The hydraulic clutch is pretty fast and I don't think it will let your tractor move down a slope. You can use the reverser at any speed but be prepared for quite a jolt if you are speeding ! You cannot change gears without clutching either with your foot or by putting the reverser in neutral. I have never tried anything easier or more efficient for FEL work : your right hand controls the FEL and a flip of your left hand sends you forward or backwards.

Then you've never tried a HST.

 

[k0ua]

I only have a small CUT, a JD 3520 Power reverser, not a farm tractor. But I am a great fan of the shuttle. You choose a gear combination at leisure then put the reverser in forward or reverse. The hydraulic clutch is pretty fast and I don't think it will let your tractor move down a slope. You can use the reverser at any speed but be prepared for quite a jolt if you are speeding ! You cannot change gears without clutching either with your foot or by putting the reverser in neutral. I have never tried anything easier or more efficient for FEL work : your right hand controls the FEL and a flip of your left hand sends you forward or backwards.

Hello friend from France, the only thing easier is a HST, it is faster, smoother and your left hand stays on the steering wheel as in making a turn, while you rock your foot to change directions instantly. also your speed is instantly adjustable not just your direction.. for CUTS there isnt anything better. I think of this everytime I do loader work with my HST equipped tractor, and marvel at how long I used gear equipped tractors. I do so many things like setting rocks on walls, and front forklift work, working close with people and expensive objects in front of me, (like vehicles) that I am so thankful that I now have a HST. I say these things because I am a true believer, I have "drunk the HST Kool-Aid". The only thing I can imagine better than a HST is HST+ or e-hydro. That is my story and I am sticking to it:laughing: Everyone must go with what their "gut" tells 'em but mine is full of HST Kool-Aid:licking:

James K0UA