HST v Hydraulic Shuttle Transmission

[crazyal]

This thread did start off as a shuttle vs HST, lol. As far as HP and gear vs HST. It makes no real world difference. If your dragging a plow you'll loose traction before HP.

If you're pulling a brush hog or something else connected to the PTO then the chances of finding the perfect gear that allows you to use every ounce of HP out of your tractor is all but impossible you'll either be going too slow to use any extra HP you have or you will have to slow down the engine RPM to slow the speed at which the tractor is moving and thus loosing the slight HP advantage you have. So unless your going to use your tractor in a way that it'll never move the HP is a non issue.

Now HST comes at a higher cost. Both upfront when you buy it and with the extra maintenance costs down the road (fluid and filters). It has proven itself just as reliable as any other type so it really comes down to taste.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

This thread did start off as a shuttle vs HST, lol. As far as HP and gear vs HST. It makes no real world difference. If your dragging a plow you'll loose traction before HP.

If you're pulling a brush hog or something else connected to the PTO then the chances of finding the perfect gear that allows you to use every ounce of HP out of your tractor is all but impossible you'll either be going too slow to use any extra HP you have or you will have to slow down the engine RPM to slow the speed at which the tractor is moving and thus loosing the slight HP advantage you have. So unless your going to use your tractor in a way that it'll never move the HP is a non issue.

Now HST comes at a higher cost. Both upfront when you buy it and with the extra maintenance costs down the road (fluid and filters). It has proven itself just as reliable as any other type so it really comes down to taste.

Agree. I've tasted 12 Kubotas with HST and one with gears and the geared one was the last one I bought and will probably be the last geared one I'll ever buy.
Now I see those smiles of thinking I'm planning on a trade and coming up with justification. Not so. The geared one will not be used much because it has no FEL and it's geared drive and I chose it that way. I'd pay the extra money to get HST if I had it to do over and no I'm not doing it over, not soon.

 

[bstrom]

Agree. I've tasted 12 Kubotas with HST and one with gears and the geared one was the last one I bought and will probably be the last geared one I'll ever buy.
Now I see those smiles of thinking I'm planning on a trade and coming up with justification. Not so. The geared one will not be used much because it has no FEL and it's geared drive and I chose it that way. I'd pay the extra money to get HST if I had it to do over and no I'm not doing it over, not soon.

Just curious why you bought the 2320 gear. I test drove one and thought it was a really nice little tractor with lots of power and a good value. I ended up with the 2620 mostly because I wanted a little stronger loader and do a lot of tight space work. Thought maybe I might not run into my buildings as easily with the HST. What do you use the 2320 gear for?

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Just curious why you bought the 2320 gear. I test drove one and thought it was a really nice little tractor with lots of power and a good value. I ended up with the 2620 mostly because I wanted a little stronger loader and do a lot of tight space work. Thought maybe I might not run into my buildings as easily with the HST. What do you use the 2320 gear for?

Why did I buy the B2320 Geared instead of B2320 HST? I think a thousand dollars.
It is a nice little tractor with lots of power and great value.
Don't have a loader on it, have one on my BX25.
I ran into a mobile home with the geared because it didn't stop when I let off the throttle like an HST would/does.
What do I use the B2320 for? Plowing, Tilling, riding the Grand kids around and will use it for pulling Boxblade, Ferguson overseeder and pulling a 4' Rotary Mower.
I'm not dissatisfied with my new B2320 Geared tractor. I'm just responding to the HST vs other transmissions OP. In time I'll get more familiar with the geared B2320 but I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I'll say I prefer the geared to HST or even say I like the geared as well as the HST. Guess I'm like most of the other SCUT and CUT nation wide buyers and prefer the HST as nation wide (not local pockets of sales) sales figures indicate.

 

[Grateful11]

My Preference would be go a gear tractor in anything up to about 100+hp, The thing that is nice about a gear tractor is you can pick which gear/range is best for the task at hand, this then allows you to get all your HP to the wheels when you need it.
With an HST, you will always be relying on Hydraulic Pressure at some point to transfer the power to the wheels, this simply means a loss of HP.

All said, each has there place, you your mainly using your tractor for Mowing, Moving trailers around and the odd bit of Loader work then HST is defiantly the easier way to go, However if you are buying a 50hp(for example) tractor and need that 50Hp then a geared tractor is the way to go.
Bigest difference between Hydraulic shuttle & Syncro Shuttle, is the latter you need to clutch in-between changes, where as the Hyd Shuttle, has a wet clutch, so lets you shift on the go, The wet clutch will typically have less burnouts if used correctly, than the dry clutch, but once again, this comes down to selecting the right gear for the task at hand and not riding the clutch!
You will also see a reduction in fuel usage with a Gear tractor, as the engine revs become more variable.

All of this said however, as the Big (130hp+) TTV transmissions are being made smaller we are starting to see this style move into smaller units, so probably in the next 10 years gear tractors will disappear completely. Along with smaller engines producing the same horsepower!

Good googly moogly 40 speeds forward and reverse, now that's sweet! Not sure if this is the one you are talking about but these aren't my neighbors Deutz that's for sure. The only Deutz we're used to seeing around are old air-cooled models but they're still kickin'! I was able to find anything on TTV but TTX shows up quite often on a search(SAME Deutz-Fahr - Products - Agrotron 215-265)

"Agrotron X
A superior choice for large-scale farming operations, the Agrotron X Series is everything you've ever heard about German engineering solid, dependable, powerful, supremely cost-efficient to operate and highly intelligent all the qualities you want in a tractor that has to deliver on demand every day. This series is equipped with the new Deutz Common-Rail (DCR) turbo diesel engine that provides constant power and torque ranges. The 4-speed Powershift transmission, Powershuttle and APS ensure the right working speeds in all six ranges (40F / 40R), and smooth, clutchless takeoff and direction change."

 

[Andrewnewy]

Good googly moogly 40 speeds forward and reverse, now that's sweet! Not sure if this is the one you are talking about but these aren't my neighbors Deutz that's for sure. The only Deutz we're used to seeing around are old air-cooled models but they're still kickin'! I was able to find anything on TTV but TTX shows up quite often on a search(SAME Deutz-Fahr - Products - Agrotron 215-265)

Hmm, Don't know what ttx is all about, Do a Search for Agrotron TTV,
This is the link to their website
Agrotron TTV

The TTV's are awesome to drive, you basically turn the key on, program in your top speed, then step on the accelerator, The computer then works out what engine RPM to use, which range to be in. exe... It's so smooth.

The X series you pictured, are awesome tractors as well, they are gear tractors though, So much power, interestingly though, sitting in the drivers seat they don't feel any different to driving a 100hp tractor! as in the way the bonnet is styled and the cab is laid out, you have excellent visibility. The biggest problem is you can forget your in a big tractor until you jump on the flight of stairs to descend the 2 meters to ground level!
The 40 Speeds is not that daunting, Basically it's made up of Gears, Ranges and Powers shifts, Essentially is boils down to 5 Gears, 2 or 3 Powers shifts and 3 or 4 ranges. So it's pretty easy to use, What it means is you can always pick exactly the right Speed and Engine RPM for the task at hand.

 

[Grateful11]

Hmm, Don't know what ttx is all about, Do a Search for Agrotron TTV,
This is the link to their website
Agrotron TTV

The TTV's are awesome to drive, you basically turn the key on, program in your top speed, then step on the accelerator, The computer then works out what engine RPM to use, which range to be in. exe... It's so smooth.

The X series you pictured, are awesome tractors as well, they are gear tractors though, So much power, interestingly though, sitting in the drivers seat they don't feel any different to driving a 100hp tractor! as in the way the bonnet is styled and the cab is laid out, you have excellent visibility. The biggest problem is you can forget your in a big tractor until you jump on the flight of stairs to descend the 2 meters to ground level!
The 40 Speeds is not that daunting, Basically it's made up of Gears, Ranges and Powers shifts, Essentially is boils down to 5 Gears, 2 or 3 Powers shifts and 3 or 4 ranges. So it's pretty easy to use, What it means is you can always pick exactly the right Speed and Engine RPM for the task at hand.

Interesting transmission. They refer to it as a ZF transmission on this page:
Agrotron TTV

I see that ZF is actually a brand name.

My wife's largest tractor has Power Shuttle with Power Reverser, 16F/12R, you can't have too many speeds ;-)

 

[Grateful11]

I never shift the shuttle when the engine is above idle. I whould think that would be pretty hard on things shifting at 2600 rpm. I use my foot throttle most of the time so its easy to un-rev.

We have never shifted from forward to reverse on the CaseIH 5140 without stopping. As for the power shuttle for speeds, there's 4 speeds for each gear range and it's not a problem shifting up or down on the go, the manual just says to do it one speed/gear at a time, in other don't power shift from 1 to 4 in a single move of the lever. I agree with you on dropping into reverse without stopping as the 5140 weighs around 12,000 lbs. and that got to a bit hard on the drivetrain.

 

[TripleR]

Most of the work with our M8540 HDC is with a pull type Woods DS1260 and routinely shift between forward and reverse at PTO speed of 2550 and shift between gears on the go.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

We just traded off our 5140 for a .... It was a good tractor. And yes, we did shift on the go between gears. Forward to reverse, we didnt always stop but were moving very slow at low rpm.