Buying Advice HST vs Gear Transmission - which would you recommend on this tractor ?

[4570Man]

Nobody ever has claimed a HST can match the efficiency of a geared transmission. Shear draw bar pull they can match. But the power put to the ground still isn’t anywhere near 3x. He jerked the gear tractor skewing the test.

 

[Citydude]

Along with the commentators on the Youtube, I think most of you missed the point.

He was only showing the HST puts indeed less power to the ground. The fact that the Geared tractor can spin the wheels in High Range and the HST can't, says it all. It just sits there and whines. What's the point for putting both tractors on Low range? Just so see wheels spinning? And yes, Neil said in the comments that he'll do the same test on a hard surface and similar tractors.

For the those that say that you don't do any tractor work in High Range, quite often fields are plowed in 1st gear High Range, where a HST would fall on its face with a lot of noise behind. Another one is the picture I'll add, would an HST tractor pull this trailer on a hilly road without having to fully stop and messing with ranges? Definitely not. The Gear tractor just downshifts on the move a gear or two.

View attachment 663343

That load of logs isn’t something I would pull with my tractor on hilly terrain. Ever

 

[ptsg]

Nobody ever has claimed a HST can match the efficiency of a geared transmission. Shear draw bar pull they can match. But the power put to the ground still isn’t anywhere near 3x. He jerked the gear tractor skewing the test.

Funny that you keep mentioning that. Maybe you should watch the video again. The one time he jerked the clutch, the tractor was still in 2WD and he then proceed to engage 4WD and feather the clutch properly to achieve the 3000 lbs+ he did. This number was not jerking the tractor like you mentioned.

 

[ptsg]

That load of logs isn’t something I would pull with my tractor on hilly terrain. Ever

Yeah, but it's something done quite frequently over here. Small loggers and firewood sellers use 40 to 50 HP tractors and have to road the tractors and trailer fully loaded a lot.

 

[LouNY]

In my opinion from what I have read very few of the tractors written about and owned by posters on this board are worked hard and long with drawbar loads.
The majority are used for mowing and loader work, with some limited rear mounted blade work.
They are not pulling heavy loads considerable distances frequently.
And just to clarify it in my mind untill you are in the lower third of your gearing and scratching for traction you are not pulling hard or
hauling a load that requires going thru your gears to get to speed and downshifting for grades or turns.

The harder a tractor is worked on the drawbar the less desirable the HST becomes and the efficiency of the gears dominate.

 

[PILOON]

The ultimate test would be to have 2 same make model tractors with only the transmissions being different.
Link them firmly back to back drawbar to drawbar and enjoy a pulling contest!

To make it more interesting vary the surfaces, asphalt, concrete, grass etc and LOL, mud!
Then sit back and take bets.

Oh and weigh each (on calibrated scales) B4 proceeding and add ballast to keep the game fair.
Advertising sponsorship could be sold to to tire manufacturers and fuel people to support the effort.

 

[Oldpath05]

Along with the commentators on the Youtube, I think most of you missed the point.

He was only showing the HST puts indeed less power to the ground. The fact that the Geared tractor can spin the wheels in High Range and the HST can't, says it all. It just sits there and whines. What's the point for putting both tractors on Low range? Just so see wheels spinning? And yes, Neil said in the comments that he'll do the same test on a hard surface and similar tractors.

For the those that say that you don't do any tractor work in High Range, quite often fields are plowed in 1st gear High Range, where a HST would fall on its face with a lot of noise behind. Another one is the picture I'll add, would an HST tractor pull this trailer on a hilly road without having to fully stop and messing with ranges? Definitely not. The Gear tractor just downshifts on the move a gear or two.

View attachment 663343

Exactly, the test was fair.

 

[Reb954]

I think Oldpath just likes to :stirthepot:. It's fun to watch though. :thumbsup:

 

[Mat4644]

The operator knew he could break traction in low range with both and this is why the test was used in high range to show the transmission limits. I have both types in under 30hp tractors. If I have excellent traction in low range the hydro trans slips and the wheels don't break. The gear tractor always breaks traction on the tires and this is with a 800 pound heavier tractor with little worn tires. Maybe this doesn't play out with larger HP tractors.

 

[Oldpath05]

Nobody ever has claimed a HST can match the efficiency of a geared transmission. Shear draw bar pull they can match. But the power put to the ground still isn’t anywhere near 3x. He jerked the gear tractor skewing the test.

He did the same with the hydro but when he put the petal to full the hydro just whines and whines and whines,,,,,, when he finally let the clutch out all way on gear, the tractor spun the tires in high range and the number show the results. @1:42 the hydro numbers was 1119, @3:12 the gear numbers was 3066 and the tires are spinning........

 

[Oldpath05]

I think Oldpath just likes to :stirthepot:. It's fun to watch though. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:Yes isn't funny to see such zealousness for hydro tractors, it's also funny that I wish my tractor was hydro.........

:stirthepot: :applause: Tractor Pulling Test - Gear Drive VS Hydro-static - YouTube

 

[Oldpath05]

The operator knew he could break traction in low range with both and this is why the test was used in high range to show the transmission limits. I have both types in under 30hp tractors. If I have excellent traction in low range the hydro trans slips and the wheels don't break. The gear tractor always breaks traction on the tires and this is with a 800 pound heavier tractor with little worn tires. Maybe this doesn't play out with larger HP tractors.

Exactly, although I wish Neil did a tug-o-war with exact same size tractor in all ranges, same tires, no ballast and on loose gravel or grass.

 

[ptsg]

Exactly, although I wish Neil did a tug-o-war with exact same size tractor in all ranges, same tires, no ballast and on loose gravel or grass.

I'm pretty sure he will do that. After all the whine going on over on the comments from those who completely missed the point, I'm pretty sure he do that just to have a little bit of peace.

 

[Oldpath05]

In my opinion from what I have read very few of the tractors written about and owned by posters on this board are worked hard and long with drawbar loads.
The majority are used for mowing and loader work, with some limited rear mounted blade work.
They are not pulling heavy loads considerable distances frequently.
And just to clarify it in my mind untill you are in the lower third of your gearing and scratching for traction you are not pulling hard or
hauling a load that requires going thru your gears to get to speed and downshifting for grades or turns.

The harder a tractor is worked on the drawbar the less desirable the HST becomes and the efficiency of the gears dominate.

Guess I'm one of few and not the majority that pulls hard and at a considerable distance zig zagging up 600' as the crow fly's just trying keep traction in 3rd gear, I always known I was an odd duck...........

L34 getting firewood - YouTube

L34 and Fransgard pto Winch - YouTube

 

[PILOON]

Make it a new event for the next olympics!

 

[4570Man]

He did the same with the hydro but when he put the petal to full the hydro just whines and whines and whines,,,,,, when he finally let the clutch out all way on gear, the tractor spun the tires in high range and the number show the results. @1:42 the hydro numbers was 1119, @3:12 the gear numbers was 3066 and the tires are spinning........

He was in the high side of 1st when he did spin. And he definitely did jerk the chain, several times when he pulled 3066. And that is close to 100 percent of the machines weighs. I highly doubt it could actually pull that much with r4s on grass. And he couldn’t spin the wheels with the geared tractor in the highest gear. This test proves nothing.

 

[paulfun9]

The ultimate test would be to have 2 same make model tractors with only the transmissions being different.
Link them firmly back to back drawbar to drawbar and enjoy a pulling contest!

To make it more interesting vary the surfaces, asphalt, concrete, grass etc and LOL, mud!
Then sit back and take bets.

Oh and weigh each (on calibrated scales) B4 proceeding and add ballast to keep the game fair.
Advertising sponsorship could be sold to to tire manufacturers and fuel people to support the effort.

I have done it with 3 internationals and 3 different transmissions. Gear is the winner!

 

[Beeenvenue]

As others have mentioned he FLOORED the hydro. Thatç—´ the same as putting the gear into high. Of course you won稚 get as much because by flooring it you have put the hydro into not only high range but the highest å*µear?br>
Simple mechanics will say a gear will deliver more power to the wheels but not 3x. More like 1.1x.

A bigger flaw is who uses 35hp CUT and below for heavy ground engaging work in straight lines? The vast majority are sold for uses like mine, multi purpose loader work, shredding, tilling, maybe some small acreage food plots. For those activities the hst shines simply because the convenience far outstrips the need BFF or the last little bit of power. For those who do use smaller tractors for ground engagement, well then yes you壇 want a geared machine - and they are made and sold.

Why not do a video on which is better for specific applications and give some real demonstrations on where is is better? That would be more useful than a dramatically misleading video that compares apples to oranges.

 

[Jstpssng]

Guess I'm one of few and not the majority that pulls hard and at a considerable distance zig zagging up 600' as the crow fly's just trying keep traction in 3rd gear, I always known I was an odd duck...........

L34 getting firewood - YouTube

L34 and Fransgard pto Winch - YouTube

I will say that you seem to ask a lot more from that 3400 than it was ever designed for, yet it keeps on running and begging for more. :thumbsup:

This discussion reminds me of quietly enjoying a cold beverage one night, as two guys argued about which truck would push the most snow; a 3/4 ton 4x4, or a ton dually with power to the rears.

 

[Oldpath05]

I will say that you seem to ask a lot more from that 3400 than it was ever designed for, yet it keeps on running and begging for more. :thumbsup:

This discussion reminds me of quietly enjoying a cold beverage one night, as two guys argued about which truck would push the most snow; a 3/4 ton 4x4, or a ton dually with power to the rears.

The way I look at if the front stays down when pulling a log then the tractor is not pulling to much, sometimes I think FEL work is harder on my tractor then hauling firewood, I know it is on my front tires. I fill my bucket up with dirt and it feels like I'm lifting a mountain.